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GTI Fuel Tank Feed Issues/Holley Hydramat Discussion

bobivy1234

Go Kart Champion
Location
Greensboro, NC USA
Car(s)
2016 VW Golf GTI
I haven't but still have most of the parts. I have a feeling I am gonna need to figure something out so I can run lower fuel levels with my current turbo. I had a spare RS3 pump to experiment with.

I am thinking that we might be able to leverage the jet pump location. That outlet should be relatively low pressure/flow and is already regulated. Install the jet pump off that fitting location. Then the hydramat off the siphon side. Then re-route the outlet back into the basket. Provide enough service loop to allow the hydramat to sit in the rear of the tank. I sold my used pump to a local guy who had a failing Walboro setup and have been on pump 91oct all winter. But the new turbo is flowing enough to cause issues below 3/8 tank on 93.

Thanks and yep still definitely interested and can help test some things also. Billy with A2B has recently insinuated that he's testing some fix for the RS3 pump pick-up issues and then EQT is saying between-the-lines that they don't have those issues so no idea what the difference between their kits would be as install videos are basically identical.

Before I go down the surge tank route, I'd be up for testing the Hydramat setup on my GTI with an RS3 pump. Just need to get rid of this issue somehow or else I'm not going to keep pushing this platform.
 

arob157

Drag Racing Champion
Location
USA
Thanks and yep still definitely interested and can help test some things also. Billy with A2B has recently insinuated that he's testing some fix for the RS3 pump pick-up issues and then EQT is saying between-the-lines that they don't have those issues so no idea what the difference between their kits would be as install videos are basically identical.

Before I go down the surge tank route, I'd be up for testing the Hydramat setup on my GTI with an RS3 pump. Just need to get rid of this issue somehow or else I'm not going to keep pushing this platform.
Messing with fuel stuff gets really sketchy, so my most recent idea was to consider swapping to a AWD tank. Plenty of wrecked cars out there. Parts swap right into our platform (I believe...might need to change the spare tire well metal...maybe? Might be wrong on that).
More things to go wrong in the AWD tank, but technically a more optimal fuel transfer. I just started considering that recently.

If you have a track oriented build that can afford downtime, you might be interested in that idea.

I still think you could run into some issues that would benefit from a surge tank. And I truly think a custom solution could be sorted out. My car is my daily, so I have still been mulling over in-tank solutions. I am on the same page about putting fuel into the cabin, as well as putting any risk into any external modifications.
 

Lurchalicious

Ready to race!
Location
NKY
Thanks and yep still definitely interested and can help test some things also. Billy with A2B has recently insinuated that he's testing some fix for the RS3 pump pick-up issues and then EQT is saying between-the-lines that they don't have those issues so no idea what the difference between their kits would be as install videos are basically identical.

Before I go down the surge tank route, I'd be up for testing the Hydramat setup on my GTI with an RS3 pump. Just need to get rid of this issue somehow or else I'm not going to keep pushing this platform.
Ive been curious as well what their differences are. EQT says it's internal modifications. I asked them what they are and they said they can't discuss it.

A2b says they (a2b) use an oem off the shelf pump.

Id be curious to see the internal section of this EQT.
 

bobivy1234

Go Kart Champion
Location
Greensboro, NC USA
Car(s)
2016 VW Golf GTI
Ive been curious as well what their differences are. EQT says it's internal modifications. I asked them what they are and they said they can't discuss it.

A2b says they (a2b) use an oem off the shelf pump.

Id be curious to see the internal section of this EQT.

Yea so the most I got out of EQT was that something about the OE RS3 pump starves on straight line pulls (ie drag strips) without some internal mods they did which usually hit around half tank due to some sloshing in the basket maybe? They did agree that typical track conditions like lateral G sweepers at 3/8 or so tank aren't avoidable due to the GTI fuel tank shape so surge tank really is the only option there. I can't say I've hit any straight line starve issues before so not sure there and I'm good about keeping the tank pretty full when doing any pulls or track.

I guess we need to find someone with an EQT LPFP and take some comparison pictures, I followed A2B's guidance so I have an OEM pump/controller and their DIY FWD harness.

Edit: EQT only would say that their manufacturer does some RS3 pump tweaks before shipping to them, dunno what but interesting they make changes for their kit.
 
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Lurchalicious

Ready to race!
Location
NKY
Yea so the most I got out of EQT was that something about the OE RS3 pump starves on straight line pulls (ie drag strips) without some internal mods they did which usually hit around half tank due to some sloshing in the basket maybe? They did agree that typical track conditions like lateral G sweepers at 3/8 or so tank aren't avoidable due to the GTI fuel tank shape so surge tank really is the only option there. I can't say I've hit any straight line starve issues before so not sure there and I'm good about keeping the tank pretty full when doing any pulls or track.

I guess we need to find someone with an EQT LPFP and take some comparison pictures, I followed A2B's guidance so I have an OEM pump/controller and their DIY FWD harness.

Edit: EQT only would say that their manufacturer does some RS3 pump tweaks before shipping to them, dunno what but interesting they make changes for their kit.
I understand that IMS makes their rs3 brushless kit. Perhaps they can/would chime in
 

arob157

Drag Racing Champion
Location
USA
I understand that IMS makes their rs3 brushless kit. Perhaps they can/would chime in
Yeah that is why EQT isn't gonna comment. And highly doubtful IMS is gonna hand over what they might do to the baskets.

I ordered parts to test the Hydramat in a siphon config and they arrived this weekend.

I also scored a BNIB AWD pump/harness/fittings/controller setup for an absolute steal. So it has the jet pump fitting & hose. Will be ordering the Radium jet pump after I test the siphon config.
 

arob157

Drag Racing Champion
Location
USA
Not quite two years old. Old coot over here was ranting about it being three years ago when I posted this stupid idea. Turns out it has been 22-ish months.

Progress has been made after countless failures in "testing" (huffing to much ethanol in my garage while trying things that didn't work). YT link cause videos aren't forum friendly.

Early stages of testing.

 

arob157

Drag Racing Champion
Location
USA

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bobivy1234

Go Kart Champion
Location
Greensboro, NC USA
Car(s)
2016 VW Golf GTI
Logs. And pics to show fill level. Shout-out to AC, Joedubs, switch and the rest of the OS tuning crew. Big shoutouts to @StorableComa for the help with integration. Oh and diggs for being there for every single MQB tuna.

35psi of boost and 15deg timing up top.

This is under 1/8 tank fill level. Flat 7.3 Bar pressure from the LP side.

https://datazap.me/u/arob157/lifted-runs-sub-18-tank-35psi-boost?log=0&data=2-8-17-24-25

Nice, looking forward to the full list of stuff that you've done at this point to get to a stable solution.
 

Daks

Autocross Champion
Location
Toronto
Car(s)
GTI PP

chitownfan

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
streamwood
Car(s)
2015 audi s3
I think the biggest issues with these pumps is getting the fuel lines kinked and the pump must be put in a certain way to have the pump sit flat with the fuel tank this is by far the best video I have found for installing it but you must follow all the directions as in the video

I have had both pumps from lms and a2b and they are the same the only changes these companies have made to the pumps to make them run better is using a kink proof hose for the extension piece instead of a weak rubber piece they used in the past also the use of the rs3 fuel pump module instead of the over heating tiguan version also helps

 
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bobivy1234

Go Kart Champion
Location
Greensboro, NC USA
Car(s)
2016 VW Golf GTI
I think the biggest issues with these pumps is getting the fuel lines kinked and the pump must be put in a certain way to have the pump sit flat with the fuel tank this is by far the best video I have found for installing it but you must follow all the directions as in the video

I have had both pumps from lms and a2b and they are the same the only changes these companies have made to the pumps to make them run better is using a kink proof hose for the extension piece instead of a weak rubber piece they used in the past also the use of the rs3 fuel pump module instead of the over heating tiguan version also helps


Can you elaborate on the kink proof hose change for the extension, is that only for AWD versions with the secondary tank? I've got the A2B FWD setup and was wondering where IMS was different. I'm also using the OEM RS3 black pump module.
 

arob157

Drag Racing Champion
Location
USA
This car must haul ass.
Especially more fun now on open source. Didn't check what map I was in prior to the logs. Was in Map 3 which is 35psi. Sent it a bit much, but exactly the results I was looking for. Just skipped about 5 levels of testing haha. Got a bit antsy.

Nice, looking forward to the full list of stuff that you've done at this point to get to a stable solution.
Rather novel. This variant of the solution isn't overly expensive. The Hydramat is what adds significant cost but not sure it would really be required at this point. Hard mounting is up next.

Don't want to share too much before I have some kits out there IRL for testing. But more then happy to throw the data out there. That tends to be the part people leave out. Will likely send my hyrdramat setup to someone else to test since I won't be hitting the track anytime soon.

Can you elaborate on the kink proof hose change for the extension, is that only for AWD versions with the secondary tank? I've got the A2B FWD setup and was wondering where IMS was different. I'm also using the OEM RS3 black pump module.
The hose kink issue is exclusive to AWD setups and exiting one of the jet pump ports. Not an issue on FWD applications. IMS isn't doing anything different. Done a bit of research on this one.

I hadn't thought of it, but the OS crew got the gears spinning on an AWD integration. More to come on that front.
 

arob157

Drag Racing Champion
Location
USA
Found the point where the setup can't feed anymore. Turns out it is when the tank is basically empty which was the goal.

Start of drive pull just below 1/8 tank fill level. e65 out of the pump.

https://datazap.me/u/arob157/1st-log-18-tank-2nd-log-zero-line?log=0&data=0-8-17-18-24-44-46


Compared to tank fill level at zero per the dash. 3.1% per OBDEleven. Fuel starved. Big surprise lol. This would happen below half tank fill level previously moving this much air and asking for this much fuel.

https://datazap.me/u/arob157/1st-log-18-tank-2nd-log-zero-line?log=1&data=0-8-17-18-24-44-46


At least wanted to test the minimum fill level for my setup. You can see the ECU start to protect as rail pressure is dropping. I have to largely imagine this is due to how slowly the rail pressure is dropping.

Feel free to look at my other logs. They are all public. Moving 1700-1900 mg/strk airmass on my current turbo. 6 weeks in and pretty sure this solution is buffing out well. Test kits going out soon. Was hung up with a couple of fittings, but got them now.
 
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