Turns out I bought a tuned CPO car

[jimlloyd40]

Well right now I can only enjoy it in 3rd gear or higher so we’ll see

Sounds like you don't have the limited slip differential. You would be better off with the low torque tune if that's true.

 

[cb1111]

You seem to be saying that if the ECU has been modified, then VW will automatically deny a powertrain warranty claim. But the dealer has explained to me why that’s not true, and that they have many examples of powertrain warranties replacing major components on tuned cars. In part this is due to the dealership’s supporting info indicating the car wasn’t abused.

I went all the way to the top to get a guarantee on the warranty. Not happening.

No, that wasn't what I was saying.

If your car is tuned and scanned, then the computer at VW will flag it as TD1.
If there is a warranty claim on a flagged car, then VW will determine if the modification caused or contributed to the failure. If so, then the claim is denied.
This is out of the hands of the dealership

Contrary to popular opinion, there are lots of powertrain issues that will be covered, but VW (like most manufacturers) ask one question - is this a failure that is normally only seen on cars with a certain modification? If so, then the claim is denied. If it is a known failure that happens even on non-modified cars (thermostat for example), then the claim is approved.

The problem is that some dealers (especially those that have had chargebacks) will pre-emptively deny a claim blaming it on the mod.

The bottom line, however, is that there are legitimate reasons where a modified car can cause a related failure and those claims should be denied - those are the claims that your dealer should cover.

 

[mrmatto]

No, that wasn't what I was saying.

If your car is tuned and scanned, then the computer at VW will flag it as TD1.
If there is a warranty claim on a flagged car, then VW will determine if the modification caused or contributed to the failure. If so, then the claim is denied.
This is out of the hands of the dealership

Contrary to popular opinion, there are lots of powertrain issues that will be covered, but VW (like most manufacturers) ask one question - is this a failure that is normally only seen on cars with a certain modification? If so, then the claim is denied. If it is a known failure that happens even on non-modified cars (thermostat for example), then the claim is approved.

The problem is that some dealers (especially those that have had chargebacks) will pre-emptively deny a claim blaming it on the mod.

The bottom line, however, is that there are legitimate reasons where a modified car can cause a related failure and those claims should be denied - those are the claims that your dealer should cover.

Yeah I see what you’re saying now. I agree for the most part. But the dealership is not willing to guarantee any part of the warranty. Not sure what else I can do at this point.

I’m happy that they’re mod friendly and letting me try out some tune options. That’s basically Burger King coupons, but at this point I’m sick of worrying about it.

 

[cb1111]

Yeah I see what you’re saying now. I agree for the most part. But the dealership is not willing to guarantee any part of the warranty. Not sure what else I can do at this point.

With a "mod-friendly dealership", you have a better chance of them not denying a claim because they are not as worried about a chargeback and they won't just scan the car because they can - but they can't control what VW will do if a particular failure requires a scan and the failure happens to be one that is prevalent with modded cars.

My first step would be to go to a different dealership and test drive an unmolested GTI with similar features and miles and see what you think. If you walk out of that dealer thinking "it isn't that different" then that may help you make your decision.

I'd say "I just got this GTI and my SO really likes it, so I'm looking for another one."

 

[jimlloyd40]

With a "mod-friendly dealership", you have a better chance of them not denying a claim because they are not as worried about a chargeback and they won't just scan the car because they can - but they can't control what VW will do if a particular failure requires a scan and the failure happens to be one that is prevalent with modded cars.

My first step would be to go to a different dealership and test drive an unmolested GTI with similar features and miles and see what you think. If you walk out of that dealer thinking "it isn't that different" then that may help you make your decision.

I'd say "I just got this GTI and my SO really likes it, so I'm looking for another one."

I'm sure that dealership would remove the APR tune without charge so he can test what you said.

 

[Mindys]

Just read the entire thread. Interesting situation here. I definitely understand where you are coming from. I bought my GTI last year new because I wanted to have a piece of mind if something is to go wrong. I work on my own cars, but if there is a major issue, I don't feel like shelling out thousands of dollars to fix it. But of course the car is more expensive this way, so I guess I spend that large sum of money in advance before any issue actually occurs to avoid the situation of having to take a car in, have it at the dealer for an unknown amount of time and deal with that inconvenience.

I had a 2015 Mustang GT that I bought new before the GTI that I actually had to take in for warranty work 2 times related to the engine. The first was a squeak from the driver side head assembly that took them A MONTH to fix. Luckily the dealer covered a rental for me (they didn't have to). Man I was glad to be back in a proper car after that affair. The second time it was the intake manifold on cylinder 8. That was a week I believe. Did not have a rental then, but I had a second car that I used instead (a MazdaSpeed6 that I actually rebuilt the engine in ).

My take on this is: you got a car below market value with a full maintenance history and some extra power with most likely a low probability of failure. I'd say keep the car, switch to the low torque tune, and if an issue comes up sometime down the line, deal with it then.

 

[GTIfan99]

O

I agree. I think the APR stage 1 low will be perfect for me. But I’m not gonna lie, I’m excited to try the car stock

If you have a dsg, don't change to the low torque.

 

[mrmatto]

If you have a dsg, don't change to the low torque.

Why? I know the DSG can handle the high torque, but it’s not usable power for me.

 

[tigeo]

Update: I had a great conversation with the dealership's owner this morning. He explained why they CPO'ed the vehicle, why it was eligible, why there were no signs of abuse, and why there was no obvious indication of a tune. And a reminder that the car has not been TD1'ed. He also explained the warranty claim process and how important the dealership is in that process in identifying for VW if a vehicle appears to have been abused or not. They've replaced many powertrain components on tuned cars under warranty before because there weren't signs of abuse. (I think this is what people mean when they say a shop is "mod-friendly.") He suggested that my safest route is to take the car back to stock, but understands why I would want to keep the tune, and noted a warranty claim could still be denied on a stock car if there's signs up abuse. I suggested switching to APR's low torque tune would be my preferred "middle ground" and he will talk to a tech about that. He still owes me an email with everything in writing, but I'm a little more comfortable with the situation now and I think we're headed to a good resolution soon.

Glad you have some resoution to your liking. I'd keep the tune and drive the car.

 

[tigeo]

Ultimately, what I want isn't possible: They can't guarantee CPO coverage because it's not a simple matter of whether the car is TD1'ed or not. They can't guarantee warranty coverage on a vehicle I might abuse, and I understand that. The best bet is for me to not abuse the car, then they'll have no reason to tell VW the car has been abused, limiting the chance a warranty claim is denied. Being a "mod-friendly" dealership, they've had plenty of successful powertrain warranty claims on tuned vehicles. There were some other "off the record" things shared on the call that I wouldn't want to repeat here so not to blow up anyone's spot or trust.

Their VWOA rep also recommended going back to the stock tune to reduce the chance of a denied claim. I'm not crazy about it, but I'll try it. This will help me decide which is more important: The warranty or the tune. I suspect I'll prefer the free tune. If the tune, they'll flash the tune back and then we'll all go on as it were. At that point, I may see if they'd be willing to offer some other sort of make-good or compensation, but that seems unlikely since they've offered to buy the car back.

In the end, the resolution may be nothing but to be thankful I bought certified at this dealer and not somewhere else. But I'm happier to come to that resolution with respect and understanding between both parties, than not.

To me, why take the tune off? It's no different in the eyes of the dealer/VW if there is a warranty claim. Also, sounds like they did propose an ammicable solution - just buy the car back. Drive it as it is and enjoy it.

 

[mrmatto]

To me, why take the tune off? It's no different in the eyes of the dealer/VW if there is a warranty claim. Also, sounds like they did propose an ammicable solution - just buy the car back. Drive it as it is and enjoy it.

Just to try it. It’s easy (and free) to put the tune back on. And the dealership and their VWOA rep both said the warranty is less likely to be denied if the tune is removed, so it’s worth considering. If I like it, then great, a slightly stronger warranty. If I don’t, then it’s back to the tune and I understand the risk. Or if I decide neither is tenable, then bye bye car.

 

[Mindys]

Just to try it. It’s easy (and free) to put the tune back on. And the dealership and their VWOA rep both said the warranty is less likely to be denied if the tune is removed, so it’s worth considering. If I like it, then great, a slightly stronger warranty. If I don’t, then it’s back to the tune and I understand the risk. Or if I decide neither is tenable, then bye bye car.

If you don’t hoon the car around every day like a madman, I don’t think you have to worry about something breaking. It’s a 54k mile car, right? Were any of the common issues with this platform fixed before you got the car?

 

[cb1111]

I'm sure that dealership would remove the APR tune without charge so he can test what you said.

Yes, but that ties him closer to THAT car and dealership. Ideally, he'd park his GTI for a day or so, drive a Kia Rio for a few days to get a clear impression of a stock GTI.

Psychologically, if you're driving "your" car, then you'll scoot around corners driving to the dealership, get it detuned and drive it the same way back. Because you are expecting a change, you will get a change - kind of like that 30hp increase from a cold air intake - it ain't there but you want it to be there so your butt dyno will tell you it is there.

To get a somewhat objective view, you'd need to drive something else for a day or so. We know that the tunes don't make a significant difference on your daily commute and the tune only comes in on the fun bits.

 

[cb1111]

Just to try it. It’s easy (and free) to put the tune back on. And the dealership and their VWOA rep both said the warranty is less likely to be denied if the tune is removed, so it’s worth considering. If I like it, then great, a slightly stronger warranty. If I don’t, then it’s back to the tune and I understand the risk. Or if I decide neither is tenable, then bye bye car.

That is horseshit. The decision is made in Germany based on if the ECU fas tuned at some point without having eyes on the car.

Again, the only question is "is the failure normally associated with a tune? Does the tune 'count' match how many times VW flashed the car?"

Yes, there are many things that can be influenced by the dealer or a "good" regional rep, but there are some that are out of their hands.

It looks like you've already made up your mind to keep the car as is and are merely looking for justification - that's fine, because there is a good chance that the car won't implode, but the dealer is feeding you a line of BS - they are experts at that and proves that the Burger King coupons work. Don't forget the hat.

Just an additional note - we always speak of tune "counts" - it isn't quite so straightforward as a simple number, but suffice it to say that VW can always tell if the ECU coding has been tampered with at some point in the past - and that is all that they care about.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Why? I know the DSG can handle the high torque, but it’s not usable power for me.

Not that you're interested but in the future you could get a Wavetrack LSD. That would solve your traction problem.

http://wavetrac.net/