GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

2019 GTI 6MT Stalling Issue

chillax

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Wi
Car(s)
18 GTI SE plaid
Bought 19 SE 6MT in april at 16miles. I inquired about the ECU flash for stalling issues and he showed me the car had indeed the flash update. Nearing 3000 miles and have not had a single stalling. Maybe it did fix it? Veyr happy with the car.

Yes they did fix it. The most recent discussion was about inventory they are now selling from original owners who returned them as "lemons" and have branded titles. That greatly reduces their resale value but yours is fine.
 

Jose_Gti

Autocross Newbie
Location
Philadelphia
I bought mine marked as a lemon for the stalling issue, supposedly fixed by VW. 2000 miles later not a single problem, I hope it continues like that.
 

dietcokefiend

Master of Disaster
Location
Ohio
Yay... NHTSA finally replied on the complaint. Request for defect petition denied...

Looks like the issue was root caused (camshaft and oil pressure related) and the 24FD repair action deemed to solve the problem.

The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) has completed its review of a defect petition received on 14 August 2019
requesting an investigation of an alleged defect of the manual transmissions in Model Year (MY) 2019 Volkswagen
(VW) GTI, Golf GTI and Jetta GLI vehicles. The stalling incidents cited occurred without warning as the vehicle slows
to a stop or prepares to make a turn across traffic with the clutch pressed in and the vehicle in neutral.
The hazard posed by a vehicle stalling event is manifested in the inability of the vehicle to move with the flow of
surrounding traffic. Two factors have a major impact on the potential hazard to the vehicle, its occupants and
surrounding vehicles: the surrounding traffic speed and the subject vehicle's restart ability. In the case of the vehicles
that are the subject of this petition, restart is immediate and the stalls occur when the vehicle is slowing to stop for a
traffic signal, making a turn, or is completely stopped. These circumstances substantially reduce the risk of harm to the
vehicle, its occupants and surrounding vehicles.
As of March 2, 2020, out of the population of 11,333 subject vehicles, NHTSA has identified 214 consumer complaints
in its database, with unique Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN), citing engine stalling as vehicles are being brought
to a stop and/or preparing to make a cross traffic turn. When combined with the warranty, field report and customer
complaint data received from VW in response to the Information Request letter sent, NHTSA identified 413 unique
VINs alleging low speed engine stalling.
Volkswagen determined that the low speed / idle engine stall was the result of unwanted gases remaining in the
cylinder caused by the intake valve camshaft not being in the correct position at idle. The intake camshaft is in an
advanced position. This advanced position results in too much overlap with the position of the exhaust valve camshaft,

Investigation: DP 19-003 Close Resume Page 2 of 2
allowing both the intake and exhaust valves to be open at the same time. The erroneous advanced position of the
intake camshaft is a result of low oil pressure at idle and high oil temperatures, greater than or equal to 110°C/230°F
combined with engine control algorithms in the Engine Control Module (ECM) that position the intake camshaft. Based
on examination of returned engines, only engines manufactured at the Silao Mexico plant were affected due to a
tolerance stack-up issue with the oil system of the engines.
In December of 2019, VW initiated a Service Action (24FD) to remedy the stalling issue in the affected vehicles. The
warranty for the affected vehicles was extended to December 31, 2025. The software in the Engine Control Module
(ECM) will be updated with a new calibration value for the adaptation nodes of the regulation valve. This is a directed
action with letters being sent to vehicle owners asking them to bring their vehicles to their dealership to have the
software update installed in their vehicle. The letters were sent in December 2019.
After thoroughly assessing the material submitted by the petitioner, information already in NHTSA's possession,
information submitted by Volkswagen in response to an information request and the potential risks to safety implicated
by the petitioner's allegation, NHTSA does not believe that the stalling condition as alleged by the petitioner indicates
the likelihood of a safety related defect that would warrant a formal investigation, therefore the petition is denied.
Further specifics can be found in the Federal Register Notice.
ODI complaint ID Numbers are listed on the attached sheet.
 

Strange Mud

Autocross Champion
Location
Small Town CT
Car(s)
Assorted
DCF,

without going back if I remember correctly you are happy with the fix and believe it's corrected?

Sorry for being lazy and not searching on my own. Either way Rspct for what you have done for the VW community.

Jim
 

dietcokefiend

Master of Disaster
Location
Ohio
If the patch fixed it yes. Sounds like a couple here and there are still stalling with the patch in place. Being oil tolerance related there are probably a few engines out there running too loose for the patch to help.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
Yay... NHTSA finally replied on the complaint. Request for defect petition denied...

Looks like the issue was root caused (camshaft and oil pressure related) and the 24FD repair action deemed to solve the problem.

The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) has completed its review of a defect petition received on 14 August 2019
requesting an investigation of an alleged defect of the manual transmissions in Model Year (MY) 2019 Volkswagen
(VW) GTI, Golf GTI and Jetta GLI vehicles. The stalling incidents cited occurred without warning as the vehicle slows
to a stop or prepares to make a turn across traffic with the clutch pressed in and the vehicle in neutral.
The hazard posed by a vehicle stalling event is manifested in the inability of the vehicle to move with the flow of
surrounding traffic. Two factors have a major impact on the potential hazard to the vehicle, its occupants and
surrounding vehicles: the surrounding traffic speed and the subject vehicle's restart ability. In the case of the vehicles
that are the subject of this petition, restart is immediate and the stalls occur when the vehicle is slowing to stop for a
traffic signal, making a turn, or is completely stopped. These circumstances substantially reduce the risk of harm to the
vehicle, its occupants and surrounding vehicles.
As of March 2, 2020, out of the population of 11,333 subject vehicles, NHTSA has identified 214 consumer complaints
in its database, with unique Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN), citing engine stalling as vehicles are being brought
to a stop and/or preparing to make a cross traffic turn. When combined with the warranty, field report and customer
complaint data received from VW in response to the Information Request letter sent, NHTSA identified 413 unique
VINs alleging low speed engine stalling.
Volkswagen determined that the low speed / idle engine stall was the result of unwanted gases remaining in the
cylinder caused by the intake valve camshaft not being in the correct position at idle. The intake camshaft is in an
advanced position. This advanced position results in too much overlap with the position of the exhaust valve camshaft,

Investigation: DP 19-003 Close Resume Page 2 of 2
allowing both the intake and exhaust valves to be open at the same time. The erroneous advanced position of the
intake camshaft is a result of low oil pressure at idle and high oil temperatures, greater than or equal to 110°C/230°F
combined with engine control algorithms in the Engine Control Module (ECM) that position the intake camshaft. Based
on examination of returned engines, only engines manufactured at the Silao Mexico plant were affected due to a
tolerance stack-up issue with the oil system of the engines.
In December of 2019, VW initiated a Service Action (24FD) to remedy the stalling issue in the affected vehicles. The
warranty for the affected vehicles was extended to December 31, 2025. The software in the Engine Control Module
(ECM) will be updated with a new calibration value for the adaptation nodes of the regulation valve. This is a directed
action with letters being sent to vehicle owners asking them to bring their vehicles to their dealership to have the
software update installed in their vehicle. The letters were sent in December 2019.
After thoroughly assessing the material submitted by the petitioner, information already in NHTSA's possession,
information submitted by Volkswagen in response to an information request and the potential risks to safety implicated
by the petitioner's allegation, NHTSA does not believe that the stalling condition as alleged by the petitioner indicates
the likelihood of a safety related defect that would warrant a formal investigation, therefore the petition is denied.
Further specifics can be found in the Federal Register Notice.
ODI complaint ID Numbers are listed on the attached sheet.
Good job - and something people don't realize that this is a huge win.

This fix would have happened at some point - whenever complaints hit whatever threshold that VW set for "acceptable number of complaints" - but that might have been in a couple of years and the issue could well have affected 2020 models.

What your complaint did, was accelerate this process. Having NHTSA send a letter to VW saying "WTF is up with this?" jolted VW into taking action far earlier and they resolved the issue because they didn't want an investigation either - so having the petition denied got the same results as an investigation - just faster.

You are responsible for getting this resolved. Everybody else just moaned and groaned and griped - you did something. Everybody on the board who had the problem needs to thank you.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
Volkswagen determined that the low speed / idle engine stall was the result of unwanted gases remaining in the
cylinder caused by the intake valve camshaft not being in the correct position at idle. The intake camshaft is in an
advanced position. This advanced position results in too much overlap with the position of the exhaust valve camshaft,
allowing both the intake and exhaust valves to be open at the same time. The erroneous advanced position of the
intake camshaft is a result of low oil pressure at idle and high oil temperatures, greater than or equal to 110°C/230°F
combined with engine control algorithms in the Engine Control Module (ECM) that position the intake camshaft. Based
on examination of returned engines, only engines manufactured at the Silao Mexico plant were affected due to a
tolerance stack-up issue with the oil system of the engines.

That explains why the issue was only seen on cars in the Americas
 

RennWerks

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Hither n Yon
The takeaway: " . . . The erroneous advanced position of the intake camshaft is a result of low oil pressure at idle and high oil temperatures, greater than or equal to 110°C/230°F combined with engine control algorithms in the Engine Control Module (ECM) that position the intake camshaft. . . ." [Emphasis added.]
 

CFB_GTA

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Canada
Was the Silao Mexico plant not making all previous gti engines? I.e. is it a design issue, or a manufacturing issue?

What tolerance stacked up caused the problem? I.e. dimensions of what components were causing low oil pressure?

If the problem is with the oil pressure in the vanes of the cam adjuster, and it wasnt fixed by heavier weight oil, assuming its leaking through these tolerances, was the ecu programmed to alter the solenoid to compensate, or was the idle reprogrammed to just retard the timing enough not to overlap the exhaust valve? Were the tolerances for all engines assumed to be represented by the lemons bought back? Does the new oil pump generate less pressure and this is more of the reason over tolerances?

If it's truly tolerances that's the root cause, and I assume the tolerances are outside acceptable limits, how did this pass vw QA?

Is there an adverse and potential long term reliability effect of both valves allowed to be open at the same time?

And finally, why do we believe that the engines power output is not negatively affected, is it retarding timing enough???

Most probably there is nothing to worry about as the cars are fast enough, and dont make any nasty noises. I just get irked if engineers blame manufacturing /qa if it's really a design problem.
 

RennWerks

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Hither n Yon
. . . and it wasn't fixed by heavier weight oil . . .
No, the Office of Defects Investigation didn't conclude that higher viscosity oil wouldn't prevent engine stalling. In fact, if camshaft positioning at idle is crucial and this is a function of oil pressure, the results of this investigation begs the question: What's the simplest way to increase oil pressure at idle?
 
Last edited:
Top