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Detailing for dummies: I'm the dummy-Wash mitts have entered the chat; possibly other things you stick your hands into!

riceburner

Autocross Champion
Location
nice try PPNT
Car(s)
MK5 Best GTI
You said you *were* OptiCoat certified. What are you now? Any reason you dropped OptiCoat?

I feel like I'm light-years behind some of you guys. I use Meguiar Gold Class Shampoo, two bucket method. No pressure washer, just slap the car with my hose on Jet. Rinse, wash, dry, and then I've just started using Griot Garage 3-in-1 Ceramic Wax. I was always raised on Carnauba. Not sure how good the Griot Garage stuff is, but the hydrophobic properties seem legit. I got caught in some rain earlier today and was watching it just fly away. Pretty awesome!

Never heard of Optimum before. I'm thinking about ordering some of their stuff. I've been researching a ton on Ceramic Coats (looking to get my new-to-me R done after a paint correction and touch-up) and OptiCoat seems to be pretty well regarded. Not too many detailers using it around me though. There's a million options!
hey, if you use the two bucket method (with grit gaurds) as described you are 95% there long as you use fresh microfiber stuff. store bought shampoos and detailing solutions are fine (long as the soap is in the right ph range) but i wouldn't use any of their tools/towels/wash mitts that touch the paint - go higher end for that stuff.
 

tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Yes, that's why David went with SiC, because it forms a permanent bond, the chemicals that are in the coating create the SiC upon contact crosslinking with the clear coat, unlike SiO2 that just sits on top of the paint. From how they explained it in the class was that it actually converts the top layer of the clear coat into SiC.

Like you added, this is why Ceramic Pro and other products had customers coming in for yearly "refreshes" to maintain the warranty. Basically, they are topping the coating with more coating. Opti-Coat does not require a topping to maintain the warranty. They do sell Hyper-Seal, which is an SiO2 maintenance spray that is formulated to bind to the SiC in Pro. I have applied wax to cars with SiO2, and the only effect is that it is gone within a week. I tried applying it to Pro and all I had was white flakes as it dried out. Didn't even bond to it.

My interest in the graphene is that it supposedly makes the color of the car look deeper, vs. SiC which is very reflective, making the shine look a little artificial, but provides better protection.
If you want the wax shine look on a coated car....use P&S beadmaker or any one of the B&B blending slipstream or it's re-bands (OG drying aid, adams slick and slide, and xtreme solution topper...few others). Whats nice about these is they don't shed off the opti-coat like other topping products, but they only last 2 weeks to a month depending on if your car is garaged.

The optimum products do a great job of keeping the UV resistance of the clear coat up as the doctor designed them to do
 
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acoustic_

Ready to race!
Location
NJ
Car(s)
2018 Golf R
hey, if you use the two bucket method (with grit gaurds) as described you are 95% there long as you use fresh microfiber stuff. store bought shampoos and detailing solutions are fine (long as the soap is in the right ph range) but i wouldn't use any of their tools/towels/wash mitts that touch the paint - go higher end for that stuff.

Someone else mentioned the Kirkland Signature (Costco) Microfibers.. I bought a pack (36pack for $18-20 or something?) to try out.. they seem alright. I used them to apply a second coat of the GG 3-in-1 Ceramic Wax and they seemed good enough. With how cheap they are per towel, you can use/wash them 2-3 times and toss without feeling bad.
 

Maiden69

Autocross Champion
Location
Texas
Car(s)
2020 GTI
Thank you very much for the detailed reply. Sorry to hear about your business .. COVID took out so many..

What products have you been using for regular wash/wax maintenance?

I may get the paint correction + touch-up done at a detailer, and then do the ceramic coat myself. Please post your thoughts on the Adam's! I've been looking at both Adam's and the Opti-Coat (Gloss-Coat, as you mentioned). My main concern is just not fucking the paint up, and before I put on a ceramic coat, getting the paint in as good condition as possible. I don't want to seal in fucked up paint, that's for sure. The last owner had the front-end PPF'd, and it's pretty banged up (did it's job!) so I need to get that removed as well before coating, obviously.
Right now I wash either with the BLACKFIRE Pro Ceramic Coating Wash, or do a foam pre-wash with it and finish with ONR. Right now I am drying them with Optimum Car Wax spray.

Adam's used to be awesome, they had a few products and they were great. Now it seems as if they are doing the same thing as Chemical Guys and have 10 different shampoos, 10 different APC, 5 different coatings... the product is still good, just too many "specialized" products. This is why Optimum is so much simpler. 1 APC, you dilute it according to your needs, one leather cleaner/conditioner. A few products I always buy from Adam's... their tire cleaner, don't know what it has but even Optimum APC full strength can't touch it, their tire dressing is great, and the undercarriage spray for me is a must, I used to use WD40, but Adams is better and smells great. I have used their 3 step polishes, good, but I will stick to Sonax for now. Optimum Spray hyper polish and hyper compound are awesome, but their spray nozzle clog so much they can be frustrating to use.

i'm really not convinced there is anything out there that actually increases depth/gloss despite literally every product claiming it does.
I thought so too until I saw Esoteric Car Care and Apex Detail videos using a gloss meter before and after coating applications. I can tell you there is a difference between wax and coatings to the eye, especially in solid colors. Esoteric has a guide on the Kamikaze coatings and which one works best depending on the color of the car. Their video of the La Italia and the Mijabi / ISM duo on red is one of the best examples.

 

tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Adam's sold out, or was sold out. however you want to look at it. Chemical guys is a marketing company that happens to sell car detailing products...they may have a good product here or there, but 95 percent of their items are mediocre at best.
 
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El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
Right now I wash either with the BLACKFIRE Pro Ceramic Coating Wash, or do a foam pre-wash with it and finish with ONR. Right now I am drying them with Optimum Car Wax spray.
I actually never heard or looked into ONR type products till this thread and you mentioning it!

After reading on it and watching vid and reviews… seems like it’s a great for my use the majority of the time, cause I was the cars weekly and living in Vegas they rarely get super dirty and fighting the car drying before you’re ready is always a thing in the hotter months!

Showed up today - and tomorrow the ultra black sponge shows up so I’ll give this stuff a try, I’m excited to give it a go for sure.

9B4B479B-FA15-4E2F-BE5E-BD1EFFBE0636.jpeg
 

tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
I actually never heard or looked into ONR type products till this thread and you mentioning it!

After reading on it and watching vid and reviews… seems like it’s a great for my use the majority of the time, cause I was the cars weekly and living in Vegas they rarely get super dirty and fighting the car drying before you’re ready is always a thing in the hotter months!

Showed up today - and tomorrow the ultra black sponge shows up so I’ll give this stuff a try, I’m excited to give it a go for sure.

View attachment 258038
Understand dilution ratios, and using much more over 250:1 in your bucket doesn't make it better...you end up fighting the product with streaking. If you like ONR I recommend the green wash and wax you need the clear cloat UV protection compounds and top up of standard clearcoat that the opt spray wax and wash and wax have in them. Especially in Vegas.

 
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tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R

snobrdrdan

former GTI owner
Someone else mentioned the Kirkland Signature (Costco) Microfibers.. I bought a pack (36pack for $18-20 or something?) to try out.. they seem alright. I used them to apply a second coat of the GG 3-in-1 Ceramic Wax and they seemed good enough. With how cheap they are per towel, you can use/wash them 2-3 times and toss without feeling bad.
Do microfiber towels have a "life span?"
(serious question)
 

tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Do microfiber towels have a "life span?"
(serious question)
Yes, eventually they don't soak up water anymore. Due to wax, sealant residue building up in the fibers and damage to the fibers (melting) by dryers. They eventually degrade.

You can reduce the degradation with a microfiber specific detergent. If you a a dude that washes your can every week or two, expect a 6-9 months out of a towel, wash your car 5-6 times a year 4 years as long as you don't let products cure on the towels (wash the same evening you washed your car).

If you get any ceramic"coating" products on your towel, it's done and needs thrown out (it cures in the fibers...) and it doesn't wash out.

If you only use the towel to dry without using a drying aid on the car (water only) and only dry them on low heat. The towel will last years...but even drying them event on low heat, they are slowly age every wash.

A 36 pack unless you like being karate kid every weekend...should last you a while.

******NO fabric softener or dryer sheets....that will kill the towel quickly****
 
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Maiden69

Autocross Champion
Location
Texas
Car(s)
2020 GTI
I actually never heard or looked into ONR type products till this thread and you mentioning it!

After reading on it and watching vid and reviews… seems like it’s a great for my use the majority of the time, cause I was the cars weekly and living in Vegas they rarely get super dirty and fighting the car drying before you’re ready is always a thing in the hotter months!

Showed up today - and tomorrow the ultra black sponge shows up so I’ll give this stuff a try, I’m excited to give it a go for sure.
Cool, let us know what you think about it when you are done. For the GTI I prepare a 5 gal bucket with 4 gal of water and 2oz ONR. Do you have a drying aid? If not I would recommend their Car Wax spray. I like the shine better than their Opti-Seal or Hyper-Seal. Protection for UV is rated at 2-4 months, but since I use it every time I dry the car I don't have to worry about that. Optimum has a new one, I haven't used it yet.

One use most don't advertise for ONR is to add 1/2 oz to your windshield washer reservoir. I use it with both DI water and with the cheap blue liquid. I find less streaking when used. This was given at the certification class.
Do microfiber towels have a "life span?"
(serious question)

Yes, eventually they don't soak up water anymore. Due to wax, sealant residue building up in the fibers and damage to the fibers (melting) by dryers. They eventually degrade.

You can reduce the degradation with a microfiber specific detergent. If you a a dude that washes your can every week or two, expect a 6-9 months out of a towel, wash your car 5-6 times a year 4 years as long as you don't let products cure on the towels (wash the same evening you washed your car).

If you get any ceramic"coating" products on your towel, it's done and needs thrown out (it cures in the fibers...) and it doesn't wash out.

If you only use the towel to dry without using a drying aid on the car (water only) and only dry them on low heat. The towel will last years...but even drying them event on low heat, they are slowly age every wash.

A 36 pack unless you like being karate kid every weekend...should last you a while.

******NO fabric softener or dryer sheets....that will kill the towel quickly****
Cheap microfiber like the ones sold at Costco are decent enough for a few washes, after that, they get sent to the wheels or interior piles. Once you dry those once or twice they get rough. If you use a sealant that is SiO2 based, the towels go to the trash. Optimum recommends dumping the towels used with Hyper-Seal immediately into the bucket of ONR to prevent it from drying and ruining the towel. I usually use a fresh Costco towel and throw it away.

Use microfiber-specific detergent, or clear detergent (no fragrance, no dyes, no nothing). You can add a little white vinegar on heavily soiled towels (wax) into the bleach portion of your washer. If you have the capability, air dry your towels. They will look like crap, but they will last longer. I dry mine in low heat for the shortest amount of time possible.

I buy my towels from The Rag Company, or other sites when they are on sale like on Detailed Image.

https://the-rag-company.reamaze.com/kb/use-and-care-tips/how-to-care-for-your-microfiber-towels
 

acoustic_

Ready to race!
Location
NJ
Car(s)
2018 Golf R
Right now I wash either with the BLACKFIRE Pro Ceramic Coating Wash, or do a foam pre-wash with it and finish with ONR. Right now I am drying them with Optimum Car Wax spray.

Adam's used to be awesome, they had a few products and they were great. Now it seems as if they are doing the same thing as Chemical Guys and have 10 different shampoos, 10 different APC, 5 different coatings... the product is still good, just too many "specialized" products. This is why Optimum is so much simpler. 1 APC, you dilute it according to your needs, one leather cleaner/conditioner. A few products I always buy from Adam's... their tire cleaner, don't know what it has but even Optimum APC full strength can't touch it, their tire dressing is great, and the undercarriage spray for me is a must, I used to use WD40, but Adams is better and smells great. I have used their 3 step polishes, good, but I will stick to Sonax for now. Optimum Spray hyper polish and hyper compound are awesome, but their spray nozzle clog so much they can be frustrating to use.


I thought so too until I saw Esoteric Car Care and Apex Detail videos using a gloss meter before and after coating applications. I can tell you there is a difference between wax and coatings to the eye, especially in solid colors. Esoteric has a guide on the Kamikaze coatings and which one works best depending on the color of the car. Their video of the La Italia and the Mijabi / ISM duo on red is one of the best examples.


Are you using ONR green or blue? It's funny how this stuff has to be leagues better than the shelf-stuff, yet it's not priced much higher, or it's cheaper. I'm ordering the Green ONR (Wash and Wax), Optimum Leather Protectant (currently use Griot Garage 3-in-1 leather), and Opti Car Wax Spray. I'm going to try out some of that Adam's wheel/tire cleaner that you mentioned - I have been trying different ones, and the last one I tried, that I've been using for a bit, is this Meguiar one. Pretty strong! Then I've been coating them in Griot Garage 3-in-1 Ceramic Wax Spray.

My plan for washing will be -

Rinse
Wash with Green ONR in wash bucket
Rinse again
Spray car down with Opti Car Wax Spray
Dry car

I'll likely replace the Griot Garage 3-in-1 I've been using on the wheels with the Opti Car Wax.

Thank you again for sharing so much info/knowledge. I'm excited for this stuff to come in!
 

Maiden69

Autocross Champion
Location
Texas
Car(s)
2020 GTI
Are you using ONR green or blue?
I use the blue. I tried the green at the class and wasn't impressed with it. They did change the formula recently, so I don't know if it will be better. On a side note, you can use the car wax as a clay lube to clay with a mitt clay. Or ONR at 2x to 4x strength.
 

Maiden69

Autocross Champion
Location
Texas
Car(s)
2020 GTI
FYI, Adam's have a 25% sale on all the graphene products

Code: GRAPHENE

As far as I can tell, both this and Gloss-Coat should be as easy to apply. I would go for graphene if the car has a vibrant color, red, blue, green or any hue of those, including metallic. Silver, white, black Gloss-Coat.

And to throw a curve-ball... Kamikaze just released their ISM 3.0 in June, I really didn't like ISM 2.0 for beginners, as it was a PITA to apply, like Opti-Coat 2.0 and Opti-Coat Pro. ISM 1.0 was easy. ISM 1.0 over Miyabi is what they used in the Ferrari La Italia. A little more expensive, but as far as DIY coatings, Kamikaze is one of the best right now, especially their Zipang.

https://www.esotericcarcare.com/kamikaze-ism-coat-3-0/

Lastly, remember that the coating will protect whatever is under it, so any imperfection will be there permanently until the coating is polished off.
 
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