Consolidated Macan Brembo upgrade thread (READ FIRST POST)

[Charlotte.:R]

have you made any changes via obd11 or norhing ? Just changed brakes ?

I made the obd11 changes in the first post. I didn't use red rubber grease. I did 2 bleeds with my motive bleeder.

 

[Martin2411]

Which changes specificly can sombody write me ehat to do exactly ? I have mk7.5r 2018

 

[GTIfan99]

Which changes specificly can sombody write me ehat to do exactly ? I have mk7.5r 2018

They're literally in the first post.

 

[Bernb6]

My brakes feel just like OEM. I can't for sure say they brake better, like the car stops x feet shorter from y speed, but they don't feel any worse.

"Stopping better" has got to be better defined. There's stopping distance when cold, when hot, resistance to overheating/boiling, pedal firmness, consistency, and more.

Under most street conditions, almost any braking system ought to be able to engage ABS. Under those conditions, it is the tire, not the brake system, that limits braking distance. If you haven't engaged ABS, then you haven't met your brake system's limits. And then there is pad material, with different coefficients of friction and optimal temperature ranges. A trackpad is less effective when it's cold but can be very sensitive when hot and vice versa for street pads. IMO, pad material and operating temperature affects feel more than caliper design. A pad material with good coefficient of friction at your operating temps should give a good feel.

Pedal travel has a different set of influencers.
- As discussed before, a surprising one is whether a caliper keeps its pads in close contact with the rotor. From what I've seen, our PP rear calipers do a good job of that with their relatively stiff springs and the ratcheting effect of the hand brake (if that's how that works). And this is why people recommend red grease for Macan calipers - so that piston seal stiction does not slightly retract the pads after every brake application. I've seen cases where the pads can be slightly wiggled back and forth between the caliper pistons and rotor. That will cause pedal travel.
- Another influencer is aged brake fluid - not aged in time but in temperature. Heat degrades fluid even before boiling. In track conditions, flushing the calipers periodically helps.
- And one more possibility is brake hose material. Some upgrade to stainless steel hoses but I'm not convinced this makes much difference in pedal travel/feel.

To me, the benefits of aftermarket calipers, whether Macan or others, are applicable to track use: a wider selection of pad material, more resistance to over heating fluid, lower weight. I'm not at all convinced there's any perceptible difference for street use.

Bern

 

[GTIfan99]

"Stopping better" has got to be better defined. There's stopping distance when cold, when hot, resistance to overheating/boiling, pedal firmness, consistency, and more.

Under most street conditions, almost any braking system ought to be able to engage ABS. Under those conditions, it is the tire, not the brake system, that limits braking distance. If you haven't engaged ABS, then you haven't met your brake system's limits. And then there is pad material, with different coefficients of friction and optimal temperature ranges. A trackpad is less effective when it's cold but can be very sensitive when hot and vice versa for street pads. IMO, pad material and operating temperature affects feel more than caliper design. A pad material with good coefficient of friction at your operating temps should give a good feel.

Pedal travel has a different set of influencers.
- As discussed before, a surprising one is whether a caliper keeps its pads in close contact with the rotor. From what I've seen, our PP rear calipers do a good job of that with their relatively stiff springs and the ratcheting effect of the hand brake (if that's how that works). And this is why people recommend red grease for Macan calipers - so that piston seal stiction does not slightly retract the pads after every brake application. I've seen cases where the pads can be slightly wiggled back and forth between the caliper pistons and rotor. That will cause pedal travel.
- Another influencer is aged brake fluid - not aged in time but in temperature. Heat degrades fluid even before boiling. In track conditions, flushing the calipers periodically helps.
- And one more possibility is brake hose material. Some upgrade to stainless steel hoses but I'm not convinced this makes much difference in pedal travel/feel.

To me, the benefits of aftermarket calipers, whether Macan or others, are applicable to track use: a wider selection of pad material, more resistance to over heating fluid, lower weight. I'm not at all convinced there's any perceptible difference for street use.

Bern

Exactly this. There is zero benefit on the street.

This setup is good for those that track a few times a year and want more choice in pads.

It's also not a true BBk either, so if you're doing track days frequently, you'll be better off with a real BBK designed for track.

 

[HelloNewman]

They're literally in the first post.

I don't know, reading sounds like a lot of work man.

 

[RochanaG]

Exactly this. There is zero benefit on the street.

This setup is good for those that track a few times a year and want more choice in pads.

It's also not a true BBk either, so if you're doing track days frequently, you'll be better off with a real BBK designed for track.

What makes something a BBK? Asking curiously.

 

[GTIfan99]

What makes something a BBK? Asking curiously.

First, the Macan's are designed for street use, so seals and dust boots aren't designed for the temps you see on track.

Second, 340 to 345, it's not much of a difference and both 30mm thick. You really want 350+ mm and 32 to 34 mm thickness.

Third, the pad surface isn't very big for the Macans.

Again, they're great for what they are, but they aren't up to heavy track use.

 

[MrFancypants]

First, the Macan's are designed for street use, so seals and dust boots aren't designed for the temps you see on track.

Second, 340 to 345, it's not much of a difference and both 30mm thick. You really want 350+ mm and 32 to 34 mm thickness.

Third, the pad surface isn't very big for the Macans.

Again, they're great for what they are, but they aren't up to heavy track use.

As someone that tends to just upgrade pads, lines, and fluid in his stock calipers I can't possibly imagine how this setup wouldn't perform great on track. My stock mk6 312x25 mm rotors with single piston sliding calipers haul my car down from 120 to 45 mph at max effort on 200 treadwear tires lap after lap without a hint of fade when using the right pads. Taking a caliper specified for a 4000+ lb vehicle and installing it on a car that weighs a full 1000 lbs less and dropping in good pads is going to work extremely well on track.

The rubber dust boots and seals are almost definitely not special compared to what you'd find on an aftermarket Stoptech or Brembo caliper and my 150k mile, never rebuilt, exposed to track pad levels of heat seals are still holding. Maybe compared to something like an AP Racing caliper like you see on a cup car, but those calipers are being disassembled and refreshed every 600 miles. Even the most dedicated amateur track enthusiast doesn't have time for that.

 

[GTIfan99]

As someone that tends to just upgrade pads, lines, and fluid in his stock calipers I can't possibly imagine how this setup wouldn't perform great on track. My stock mk6 312x25 mm rotors with single piston sliding calipers haul my car down from 120 to 45 mph at max effort on 200 treadwear tires lap after lap without a hint of fade when using the right pads. Taking a caliper specified for a 4000+ lb vehicle and installing it on a car that weighs a full 1000 lbs less and dropping in good pads is going to work extremely well on track.

The rubber dust boots and seals are almost definitely not special compared to what you'd find on an aftermarket Stoptech or Brembo caliper and my 150k mile, never rebuilt, exposed to track pad levels of heat seals are still holding. Maybe compared to something like an AP Racing caliper like you see on a cup car, but those calipers are being disassembled and refreshed every 600 miles. Even the most dedicated amateur track enthusiast doesn't have time for that.

What pad and what tires are you using?

 

[MrFancypants]

What pad and what tires are you using?

Hankook RS-4s with G-Loc R12 front and R10 rear, Motul 600 fluid, and Goodridge brake lines. Works well at stock turbo output (up to ~270 bhp). I’ve not tested it at higher hp levels but with stock rotor sizes and I’m not sure I’d want to. My guess is that the stock mk7 PP brakes would be great up to at least K04 output (~350 hp).

Maybe I’m just old and I remember dealing with truly wimpy brakes from decades ago when I first got started on track, but in my mind 340x30 mm brakes are gigantic for a 3100 lb car. Then again, that far back the fwd sport compact equivalent wasn’t usually capable of pushing 400 hp with a couple thousand in upgrades and tires weren’t nearly as good.

 

[GTIfan99]

Hankook RS-4s with G-Loc R12 front and R10 rear, Motul 600 fluid, and Goodridge brake lines. Works well at stock turbo output (up to ~270 bhp). I’ve not tested it at higher hp levels but with stock rotor sizes and I’m not sure I’d want to. My guess is that the stock mk7 PP brakes would be great up to at least K04 output (~350 hp).

Maybe I’m just old and I remember dealing with truly wimpy brakes from decades ago when I first got started on track, but in my mind 340x30 mm brakes are gigantic for a 3100 lb car. Then again, that far back the fwd sport compact equivalent wasn’t usually capable of pushing 400 hp with a couple thousand in upgrades and tires weren’t nearly as good.

Yeah, I think it all comes down to hp and tires as far as what works.

I've been happy with my 4 pot Brembo 345mm setup on the street, autocross and track with 200tw tires, stg 1 tune, and RS3 deflectors.

 

[MrFancypants]

Yeah, I think it all comes down to hp and tires as far as what works.

I've been happy with my 4 pot Brembo 345mm setup on the street, autocross and track with 200tw tires, stg 1 tune, and RS3 deflectors.

Right on, that sounds like a really amazing setup. I bet those fixed calipers are a dream to modulate, something the stock sliders kinda suck at.

 

[GTIfan99]

Right on, that sounds like a really amazing setup. I bet those fixed calipers are a dream to modulate, something the stock sliders kinda suck at.

Yeah, PP definitely felt like on/off switches to me, maybe pad dependent though.

Since I plan on staying stg 1 and 200tw tires, I'm going to push the 4 pot Brembos as far as I can, but I'm 2 years in with them and pretty happy.

 

[steinfeld]

Thoughts on this Nuespeed kit for $1,049.95?

• Kit Includes:​

  • 1x Left 345x30mm Full-Floating 2-Piece Slotted Rotor
  • 1x Right 345x30mm Full-Floating 2-Piece Slotted Rotor
  • 1x Set of NEUSPEED Stainless Steel Sport Brake Lines
  • 1x Set of iSweep Performance Brake Pads
  • 1x Set of NEUSPEED Grade 5 Titanium Brake Pad Shims