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Ceramic Pro

SteveRedGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Vermont
Car(s)
2020 GTI S

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Keehs360

Autocross Champion
Location
Denver
Car(s)
Mk7.5
Deciding what to do to clean and buff this all out. Semi mud flap direct hit in the inter
Ouch. If you’re near Denver I can help. I don’t have a da though, the one I always used broke. Sadly.

if u have the supplies I can help you out
 

Maiden69

Autocross Champion
Location
Texas
Car(s)
2020 GTI
I think it's a waste of money and time to put wax on top of a ceramic coat. If you put on a good quality ceramic coat that is 9H and a 4 year coat, then there's no point of putting wax on top.
100% correct
Disagree. Carnuba gives a deeper shine than even the best ceramic can do, and it does a better job of preventing water spots since it generally erodes away within a month, taking the spots with it. It works the same over ceramic as it does over clear coats.

It all depends on your ocd level... I know plenty of people who throw on a $4k ceramic job then go run through automated car wash twice a week where teenagers with dirty microfiber cloths rub your ceramic into swirl hell. No problem though as the detailer just hits it with a wool pad when they come back in 🙃.
I guess you meant can't do... and you would be wrong too. It all depends on the type of ceramic. I think right now the only one that I would recommend that would leave the same kind of gloss as wax would be Kamikaze Miyabi/ISM 1.0 combo. Also, if you don't use a wax that is ceramic coat compatible, all you're going to end up is with a lot of white flakes of wax sitting on top of the paint. Regular wax doesn't stick to ceramic. I tested a few waxes (Pinnacle Souveran, Adams Americana and Patriot, and Wolfgang Fuzion) on top of OptiCoat, Pro, Pro+, GlossCoat, and Miyabi and they just flaked off...


Late to this convo, but I detailed cars as a hobby right now and owned a detailing business for a year before COVID trashed the economy. I was an authorized dealer for OptiCoat and have used it on all my cars except the GTI. Pending on getting coated as soon as I can get some extra time to hook my compressor and lift in my new home.

Ceramic coatings are not meant to be a miracle layer that will never spot or scratch as some people believe it is. It is a semi-permanent sacrificial layer so that whatever was going to etch your paint (hard water - bird poop) will etch the coating, which can easily be polished off and recoated instead of etching your paint which will require compounding and sometimes even wet sanding.

Also, a lot of the new SiO2 sprays in the market will work as well (less protection, less durable than a coating), but keep in mind that if you miss apply some, you will have to polish them out or you will have streak marks in your car for a few months until they wear out.
 

SteveRedGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Vermont
Car(s)
2020 GTI S
Ouch. If you’re near Denver I can help. I don’t have a da though, the one I always used broke. Sadly.

if u have the supplies I can help you out
Ha, nope that won't buff out. Windshield, in addition to the large smash, has 4 good sized cracks. Front headlight lens may come back, but the hood in front has a dent that looks to be not fixable, in addition to obvious deep scratches down to the metal. Waiting to hear back from them, hopefully I don't have to fight hard for a new hood.
 

IanCH

Autocross Champion
Location
MA
Car(s)
'20 GTI
If they have to paint it anyway why do you need a new hood? Nobody cares about paint thickness on a gti.

The dent repair people are wizards, I had some big dents on panel creases that they fixed to perfection on my s5.
 

Keehs360

Autocross Champion
Location
Denver
Car(s)
Mk7.5
100% correct

I guess you meant can't do... and you would be wrong too. It all depends on the type of ceramic. I think right now the only one that I would recommend that would leave the same kind of gloss as wax would be Kamikaze Miyabi/ISM 1.0 combo. Also, if you don't use a wax that is ceramic coat compatible, all you're going to end up is with a lot of white flakes of wax sitting on top of the paint. Regular wax doesn't stick to ceramic. I tested a few waxes (Pinnacle Souveran, Adams Americana and Patriot, and Wolfgang Fuzion) on top of OptiCoat, Pro, Pro+, GlossCoat, and Miyabi and they just flaked off...


Late to this convo, but I detailed cars as a hobby right now and owned a detailing business for a year before COVID trashed the economy. I was an authorized dealer for OptiCoat and have used it on all my cars except the GTI. Pending on getting coated as soon as I can get some extra time to hook my compressor and lift in my new home.

Ceramic coatings are not meant to be a miracle layer that will never spot or scratch as some people believe it is. It is a semi-permanent sacrificial layer so that whatever was going to etch your paint (hard water - bird poop) will etch the coating, which can easily be polished off and recoated instead of etching your paint which will require compounding and sometimes even wet sanding.

Also, a lot of the new SiO2 sprays in the market will work as well (less protection, less durable than a coating), but keep in mind that if you miss apply some, you will have to polish them out or you will have streak marks in your car for a few months until they wear out.
Adding sacrificial layers of a ceramic spray over your ceramic coating every few months will allow the coating to last longer

there are some glossy coatings out there. But cheap carnauba Paste waxes will outshine them. And really good expensive carnuba waxes will definitely take the cake

it’s just unfortunate that carnauba waxes don’t last very long on your paint. Only carnauba product that can last about as long as seal and shine and other ceramic sprays might just be swissvax endurance. It’s 40% pure white carnauba with ptfe. But only professionals can buy the product.

in terms of gloss. Ceramic coatings (a few at least) are getting closer. But carnauba is still king
 

SteveRedGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Vermont
Car(s)
2020 GTI S
If they have to paint it anyway why do you need a new hood? Nobody cares about paint thickness on a gti.

The dent repair people are wizards, I had some big dents on panel creases that they fixed to perfection on my s5.
At 7,500 miles, I'm just a little more sensitive I guess. Who doesn't care about paint thickness? LOL
 

Maiden69

Autocross Champion
Location
Texas
Car(s)
2020 GTI
Adding sacrificial layers of a ceramic spray over your ceramic coating every few months will allow the coating to last longer

there are some glossy coatings out there. But cheap carnauba Paste waxes will outshine them. And really good expensive carnuba waxes will definitely take the cake

it’s just unfortunate that carnauba waxes don’t last very long on your paint. Only carnauba product that can last about as long as seal and shine and other ceramic sprays might just be swissvax endurance. It’s 40% pure white carnauba with ptfe. But only professionals can buy the product.

in terms of gloss. Ceramic coatings (a few at least) are getting closer. But carnauba is still king
Almost every company have their own ceramic spray to go with their coating. In the case of OptiCoat, they use Hyperseal as a drying aid to go over their Pro coatings. Hyperseal can also be used on its own. With that said, you can overdo it. And when it happens you end up with dark spots or streaks on the paint.

Adams have their Ceramic Boost, and the new CS3 line along with the Ceramic infused wax. But, a regular wax will not work over coated paint.

There are a lot of good waxes in the market, but useless in this era of coatings unless you are taking the car to a show and need the utmost level of shine. Coatings will protect better and last longer, especially in hot places during summertime, and in northern environments when you have to deal with harsh chemicals and salt on the roads during winter.
 

9uns

Autocross Champion
Location
92870
Car(s)
gti
Almost every company have their own ceramic spray to go with their coating. In the case of OptiCoat, they use Hyperseal as a drying aid to go over their Pro coatings. Hyperseal can also be used on its own. With that said, you can overdo it. And when it happens you end up with dark spots or streaks on the paint.

Adams have their Ceramic Boost, and the new CS3 line along with the Ceramic infused wax. But, a regular wax will not work over coated paint.

There are a lot of good waxes in the market, but useless in this era of coatings unless you are taking the car to a show and need the utmost level of shine. Coatings will protect better and last longer, especially in hot places during summertime, and in northern environments when you have to deal with harsh chemicals and salt on the roads during winter.
Idk if I'd go so far as to say that traditional waxes are useless in the era of coatings. While they may serve the same purpose, they're still nuanced enough to be used under different circumstances.
 

K-Span

Ready to race!
Location
Stafford, VA
Car(s)
2021 GTI SE MT DBP
I haven't gotten around to putting on the ceramic coating yet. But I just noticed that the liftgate is rubbing against the bumper, so that will have to get fixed first anyway. I would have been pissed if I went through all that trouble just to need to get the bumper and hatch repainted anyway 🤣
 

Maiden69

Autocross Champion
Location
Texas
Car(s)
2020 GTI
Idk if I'd go so far as to say that traditional waxes are useless in the era of coatings. While they may serve the same purpose, they're still nuanced enough to be used under different circumstances.
Now you sounded there like Ryan Neil... don't know if you know who he is, but he used "nuance" WAYYY too much.

I guess I needed to be more specific. When it comes to paint protection and durability, waxes are useless... unless they are infused to increase durability to more than 2 months. A lot of manufacturers claim a life span of around 2-3 months on waxes, and that is best-case scenario. I rarely seen wax last longer than 1 month on a car, unless in the northern states and during spring or fall. In summer the wax deteriorates quickly and in winter it doesn't stand to the abuse of salt and chemicals on the road.

Waxes do have their little niche, mostly for a car show or when you just need some protection. But if you're serious about protecting the paint in your car, either a proper coating or PPF (film or sprayed, search Clarity Coat) is the way to go.
 

Keehs360

Autocross Champion
Location
Denver
Car(s)
Mk7.5
Now you sounded there like Ryan Neil... don't know if you know who he is, but he used "nuance" WAYYY too much.

I guess I needed to be more specific. When it comes to paint protection and durability, waxes are useless... unless they are infused to increase durability to more than 2 months. A lot of manufacturers claim a life span of around 2-3 months on waxes, and that is best-case scenario. I rarely seen wax last longer than 1 month on a car, unless in the northern states and during spring or fall. In summer the wax deteriorates quickly and in winter it doesn't stand to the abuse of salt and chemicals on the road.

Waxes do have their little niche, mostly for a car show or when you just need some protection. But if you're serious about protecting the paint in your car, either a proper coating or PPF (film or sprayed, search Clarity Coat) is the way to go.
I agree. Folks with older cars especially don’t want to use coatings for many good reasons. Regular carnauba wax still plays an important role for many people. Frankly if I had Lamborghini money, you better believe I’d only use swissvax’s endurance wax. Ptfe and carnauba and expensive as shit. Only lasts about 6 months, surprisingly. But no coating would make my imaginary Lamborghini shine the wax endurance would. Carnauba is still the kind when it comes to flat out gloss. Coatings are getting closer. But not close enough yet. I wouldn’t coat my fake imaginary Lamborghini
 

SteveRedGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Vermont
Car(s)
2020 GTI S
For daily drivers and those that live in bad weather country, like myself, a good paint correction followed by one of the new spray coatings is great. No, they're not true "coatings" in the sense of the meaning, but very good. TW hybrid solutions, 303, Meguiar's Hybrid Paint Coating is likely the best spray on and most durable. The primary purpose is shine and durability, plus it makes the car so much easier to clean. Carnuba is great for the garage queen and the constant tinkerer, especially in better weather areas. If you love to use wax, always clean your car in automatic washes. ;). My GTI will have a paint correction and a fresh coating in a few weeks. Most new cars off the lot need some kind of paint correction, unless you like swirls and contamination locked under a coating.

 

Maiden69

Autocross Champion
Location
Texas
Car(s)
2020 GTI
If you love to use wax, always clean your car in automatic washes.
This makes no sense at all. Automatic washes thrash your paint. And the touchless washes uses so much chemical crap that will make your car pain full of gunk on top of it that can only be completely cleaned with a degreaser or a good all purpose cleaner. Places like "The Wash Tub" use heavy filler waxes and sealants to cover up all the scratches created by their flaps. Also, if you take your car to them, instead of going in and waiting for the car, walk around the back as they drive it in. Especially about 2/3rd of the day, you will see their "pre-wash" tub (that is clean water with soap in the morning) full of dirt, and from this water they take a brush and rub the entire bottom half of your car to remove the excess dirt. The rest get's caught up in the flaps and acts as a nice sand paper as they rub it into your paint.

How do I know that... because 90% or more of my customers used to have those free 1 year memberships. Wash your car by hand, properly, and use wax or sealant to protect from the elements.
 

SteveRedGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Vermont
Car(s)
2020 GTI S
This makes no sense at all. Automatic washes thrash your paint. And the touchless washes uses so much chemical crap that will make your car pain full of gunk on top of it that can only be completely cleaned with a degreaser or a good all purpose cleaner. Places like "The Wash Tub" use heavy filler waxes and sealants to cover up all the scratches created by their flaps. Also, if you take your car to them, instead of going in and waiting for the car, walk around the back as they drive it in. Especially about 2/3rd of the day, you will see their "pre-wash" tub (that is clean water with soap in the morning) full of dirt, and from this water they take a brush and rub the entire bottom half of your car to remove the excess dirt. The rest get's caught up in the flaps and acts as a nice sand paper as they rub it into your paint.

How do I know that... because 90% or more of my customers used to have those free 1 year memberships. Wash your car by hand, properly, and use wax or sealant to protect from the elements.
The key to my statement is "If you love to wax". The high ph levels of the auto carwashes will have fun with your work, and you'll have to keep waxing and waxing and waxing. Not to mention the dirty water filled with contaminants that many have, like our local ECO wash that uses recycled water. Water spots, some etching after awhile, it's a hot mess. In the winter, my only real choice is to grin and bear it, or get some foam shampoo and use only the hp wand . We have one locally that is cheap, and lots of pressure. I avoid those that greet you with brushes right at the entrance, or those spinning foam mechanical cleaners that are filled with the previous 1,000 cars dirt.

Daily driver without a garage, choices are somewhat limited.
 
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