GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
I have the RS3 bushings in mine, don't have any complaints. I don't believe you can run any caster or camber bushings on the LCA if you're also planning to run any sort of plates at the top of the strut. ST rules are pretty clear about either top or bottom of the strut adjustments, but not both. Edit: Reread the rules, offset bushings are allowed regardless of camber plates, I was thinking of adjustable control arms which are not allowed in tandem with camber plates

FWIW, I got the RS3 bushings from BFI and then bought replacement LCA from rockauto, cost about ~120 total for all the parts and I installed the new bushings in the LCA and then swapped them into my car when I did the suspension.
 

JackRabbitSLIM

Go Kart Champion
Location
OHIO
Car(s)
MK7 GTI
I haven't had issues with poly bushings in STS or STX. I think arms with offset bushings are worth a hard look because of the camber/caster gains. Seems like a must to me. FWIW I believe front camber and diff are pretty much the most important things in FWD ST.
 
Last edited:

marka

Ready to race!
Location
Youngstown, OH
Car(s)
2017 GTI
Howdy,

I have the RS3 bushings in mine, don't have any complaints. I don't believe you can run any caster or camber bushings on the LCA if you're also planning to run any sort of plates at the top of the strut. ST rules are pretty clear about either top or bottom of the strut adjustments, but not both. Edit: Reread the rules, offset bushings are allowed regardless of camber plates, I was thinking of adjustable control arms which are not allowed in tandem with camber plates

FWIW, I got the RS3 bushings from BFI and then bought replacement LCA from rockauto, cost about ~120 total for all the parts and I installed the new bushings in the LCA and then swapped them into my car when I did the suspension.

Yeah, I initially though the same things about the rules, then decided to check, just in case. :)

It did makes me wonder if I should be looking at replacing one of the rear suspension arms.

Does anyone know what control arms BFI uses for their full arm thing? I'm pretty hesitant about using non-OE arms for rules reasons.

Mark
 

marka

Ready to race!
Location
Youngstown, OH
Car(s)
2017 GTI
Howdy,

I haven't had issues with poly bushings in STS or STX. I think arms with offset bushings are worth a hard look because of the camber/caster gains. Seems like a must to me. FWIW I believe front camber and diff are pretty much the most important things in FWD ST.

Neither of those arms is legal in STH, unless you're not running CC plates (which obviously wouldn't be the case).

I'm also not sure if the SuperPro DuroBall bushing complies with the rules. It seems like its multi-piece, and I'm wondering if said multi-pieces run afoul of the bushing replacement wording that doesn't allow a change in the 'type' of the bushing. If the inner part of the bushing can rotate in the outer part... That's not going to be STH legal.

Mark
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
Howdy,



Yeah, I initially though the same things about the rules, then decided to check, just in case. :)

It did makes me wonder if I should be looking at replacing one of the rear suspension arms.

Does anyone know what control arms BFI uses for their full arm thing? I'm pretty hesitant about using non-OE arms for rules reasons.

Mark
I think BFI uses OE based on the price. I think OE equivalent is still a safe bet
 

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
I have the RS3 bushings in mine, don't have any complaints. I don't believe you can run any caster or camber bushings on the LCA if you're also planning to run any sort of plates at the top of the strut. ST rules are pretty clear about either top or bottom of the strut adjustments, but not both. Edit: Reread the rules, offset bushings are allowed regardless of camber plates, I was thinking of adjustable control arms which are not allowed in tandem with camber plates

FWIW, I got the RS3 bushings from BFI and then bought replacement LCA from rockauto, cost about ~120 total for all the parts and I installed the new bushings in the LCA and then swapped them into my car when I did the suspension.
To be clear to the group, only one method of camber adjustment is allowed

14.8.H.2
On arm-and-strut (MacPherson/Chapman) suspensions, the lower arms may be modified/replaced OR other methods of camber adjustment as allowed by Sections 14.8.B, C, or F may be used, but NOT both.

14.8.B
Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materials (except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset bushings may be used.

14.8.C
The following allowances apply to strut-type suspensions. Adjustable camber plates may be installed at the top of the strut and the original upper mounting holes may be slotted. The drilling of holes in order to perform the installation is permitted. The center clearance hole may not be modified. Any type of bearing or bushing may be used in the adjustable camber plate attachment to the strut. The installation may incorporate an alternate upper spring perch/seat and/or mounting block (bearing mount). Any ride height change resulting from installation of camber plates is allowed. Caster changes resulting from the use of camber plates are permitted.

14.8.F
Camber bolts may be installed providing these parts use the original, unmodified mounting points and meet the restrictions specified in Section 14.5.B. Caster changes resulting from the use of camber bolts are permitted.

So either upper shock mount articulates, the lower arm length can be adjusted, or an offset lower bushing can be used. Chose one.
 

replicate

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Downunder
They list them as RS3 “style” so I assume they make them themselves like their other products.
I could be wrong here but I thought all the OEM bushings still had a small void in them. CSS/TTS/RS3.
But if they are legal they are a great option. Even the reduced void versions make an improvement to steering feel and responsiveness.
 

jmblur

Autocross Champion
Location
Massachusetts
Car(s)
2017 Golf R
I think BFI uses OE based on the price. I think OE equivalent is still a safe bet
BFI is not the same as the RS3. BFI is a much simpler part - symmetric with no voids.

This isn't actually ideal, because the bushing does have to rotate for proper articulation, otherwise it's effectively acting as a spring member rather than a rotating bushing. If you think about spherical bushings, they have minimal resistance to rotation, but very high resistance to lateral motion. Great for suspension motion, bad for NVH. Solid poly or rubber bushings, including the offset camber ones, have high resistance to rotation and med resistance to lateral motion. Not great in either respect. The Superpro "duroball" is low/medium, which is a good compromise, but I don't think ST legal.

The true RS3 bearings have a lot more rubber than the stock bushings, but still have slits for rotation. Better than the solid rubber/poly bushings for articulation, but they will have a bit more lateral movement than poly bushings. One note - they do have slightly more metal than the stock bushings. They also have more rubber, so I think you can make a valid argument they're legal.

Here's the direct comparison to oem golf R bushings. The difference is even more obvious in person, there's a LOT less void on the RS3 part. Getting them pressed in (for free!) This week, but won't have them on the car til this winter at some point. I do love OEM+ parts though!

PXL_20201020_034846548.jpg
 

marka

Ready to race!
Location
Youngstown, OH
Car(s)
2017 GTI
Howdy,

To be clear to the group, only one method of camber adjustment is allowed

14.8.H.2
On arm-and-strut (MacPherson/Chapman) suspensions, the lower arms may be modified/replaced OR other methods of camber adjustment as allowed by Sections 14.8.B, C, or F may be used, but NOT both.

14.8.B
Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materials (except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset bushings may be used.

14.8.C
The following allowances apply to strut-type suspensions. Adjustable camber plates may be installed at the top of the strut and the original upper mounting holes may be slotted. The drilling of holes in order to perform the installation is permitted. The center clearance hole may not be modified. Any type of bearing or bushing may be used in the adjustable camber plate attachment to the strut. The installation may incorporate an alternate upper spring perch/seat and/or mounting block (bearing mount). Any ride height change resulting from installation of camber plates is allowed. Caster changes resulting from the use of camber plates are permitted.

14.8.F
Camber bolts may be installed providing these parts use the original, unmodified mounting points and meet the restrictions specified in Section 14.5.B. Caster changes resulting from the use of camber bolts are permitted.

So either upper shock mount articulates, the lower arm length can be adjusted, or an offset lower bushing can be used. Chose one.

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The restrictions in 14.8.H apply only to the situation where you want to use the allowance in 14.8.H.

8.B, 8.C, and 8.F can all be used simultaneously, but 8.H cannot be used if any of 8.B, 8.C, or 8.F are used. It is perfectly legal on the front of a mk7 to use both CC plates as well as offset bushings in STH.

Mark
 
Last edited:

jmblur

Autocross Champion
Location
Massachusetts
Car(s)
2017 Golf R
Howdy,



I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The restrictions in 14.8.H apply only to the situation where you want to use the allowance in 14.8.H.

8.B, 8.C, and 8.F can all be used simultaneously, but 8.H cannot be used if any of 8.B, 8.C, or 8.F are used. It is perfectly legal on the front of a mk7 to use both CC plates as well as offset bushings in STH.

Mark

Yet another reason why I'd love to see the rules go to "no more than 3 degrees of additional camber from stock alignment settings" or something easily understandable and enforceable.
 

q74

Go Kart Newbie
Car(s)
R
They list them as RS3 “style” so I assume they make them themselves like their other products.
I could be wrong here but I thought all the OEM bushings still had a small void in them. CSS/TTS/RS3.
But if they are legal they are a great option. Even the reduced void versions make an improvement to steering feel and responsiveness.

I can confirm TTS/TTRS bushing have no void, unlike RS3 bushings. The arms are diffrent however (aluminum vs stampped steel, additional camber, and a touch of caster), so I'm not sure if the TTS bushing would fit.

If you want solid rubber bushing I would go for the BFI to be safe/certain, otherwise the superpro replacement bushings are NOT duroball (thats reserved ony for the superpro LCA), and thus should be fully rules compliment.
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
BFI is not the same as the RS3. BFI is a much simpler part - symmetric with no voids.

This isn't actually ideal, because the bushing does have to rotate for proper articulation, otherwise it's effectively acting as a spring member rather than a rotating bushing. If you think about spherical bushings, they have minimal resistance to rotation, but very high resistance to lateral motion. Great for suspension motion, bad for NVH. Solid poly or rubber bushings, including the offset camber ones, have high resistance to rotation and med resistance to lateral motion. Not great in either respect. The Superpro "duroball" is low/medium, which is a good compromise, but I don't think ST legal.

The true RS3 bearings have a lot more rubber than the stock bushings, but still have slits for rotation. Better than the solid rubber/poly bushings for articulation, but they will have a bit more lateral movement than poly bushings. One note - they do have slightly more metal than the stock bushings. They also have more rubber, so I think you can make a valid argument they're legal.

Correct, the BFI ones have no voids at all and are solid rubber. I most likely misunderstood them for the RS3 ones.

When I installed them I noticed (obviously) that they are much, much stiffer and don't allow the LCA to easily articulate. I think in my case with a stiffer suspension and less travel than stock, this actually works out well. On a stock suspension car with soft springs / lots of suspension travel I could see these getting torn up pretty good as the suspension tried to articulate.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Howdy,



I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The restrictions in 14.8.H apply only to the situation where you want to use the allowance in 14.8.H.

8.B, 8.C, and 8.F can all be used simultaneously, but 8.H cannot be used if any of 8.B, 8.C, or 8.F are used. It is perfectly legal on the front of a mk7 to use both CC plates as well as offset bushings in STH.

Mark

I like this interpretation better. 😜😜😜
 

JackRabbitSLIM

Go Kart Champion
Location
OHIO
Car(s)
MK7 GTI
This whole thing has sent me on a search for a good adjustable lower control arm. Why is no one making a turnbuckle style lower arm or one that can be shimmed? I found a few arms that have adjustability on the "bushing" side, but were sphericals and they only claimed a little additional camber.

No one can get more than -3 degrees, and there is the issue with the endlinks. It seems like there are enough people trying to get all the camber they can that these hypothetical arms would have a market. Am I missing something?

Has anyone else found a lower arm that can give some real camber? Like -4.5?
 
Top