Even if you are manufacturing/own your facilities versus "distributing" you're still not going to get finished cast samples of every option before production. I'm sure manufacturing makes test casts for each mold to ensure processes and finishes, and that's where estimated weights would come from. You can run with those weights, or you can estimate and update once you have the wheel in house.
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Beginner’s Guide / Tips for Buying a Street-Based Suspension
- Thread starter Hammersticks
- Start date
Even if you are manufacturing/own your facilities versus "distributing" you're still not going to get finished cast samples of every option before production. I'm sure manufacturing makes test casts for each mold to ensure processes and finishes, and that's where estimated weights would come from. You can run with those weights, or you can estimate and update once you have the wheel in house.
Hammersticks
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- Bay Area, CA
- Car(s)
- '16 GTI, '18 e-Golf
My sarcasm failed to come through the internets.
EricsVdub
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Chicago 'burbs
- Car(s)
- 2019 GTI SE Exp pkg
Neuspeeds' published spring rates are misleading because they give a single rate, although their springs are clearly very progressively wound by appearance.
EricsVdub
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Chicago 'burbs
- Car(s)
- 2019 GTI SE Exp pkg
I thought this might help some with spring selection. The pictures attached help visually demonstrate the difference between linear rate and dual rate progressive springs. Constantly increasing progressive rate springs also exist, but they are almost exclusively used as load helper springs in cargo applications with significant differences in load weight.
Linear rate springs deflect the same amount at a given load weight throughout their entire length. They are very predictable, and easier to engineer a particular ride height and spring length for a given application. They don't add any roll control in transitions, leaving that entirely to anti sway bars. They provide a consistent ride feel if they have sufficient suspension travel to avoid hitting the bump stops. Load capacity can be compromised in lowered ride height applications.
Dual rate progressive springs have coils spaced different distances apart throughout their winding. The coils spaced closer together are softer, while those further apart are stiffer, with a short transition in between. They deflect different amounts at a given load weight throughout their length. They are more complex, and more complicated to design for a given application. If designed correctly for a given application, they add roll control in addition to anti sway bars within their narrower design parameters. They can transition greatly in ride feel inside or outside their more narrowly designed application, which could include something as simple as the number of passengers. They can be designed for lowered ride height applications even with more limited suspension travel. They can maintain larger load capacity in lowered applications, albeit with harsher ride quality.
Linear rate springs deflect the same amount at a given load weight throughout their entire length. They are very predictable, and easier to engineer a particular ride height and spring length for a given application. They don't add any roll control in transitions, leaving that entirely to anti sway bars. They provide a consistent ride feel if they have sufficient suspension travel to avoid hitting the bump stops. Load capacity can be compromised in lowered ride height applications.
Dual rate progressive springs have coils spaced different distances apart throughout their winding. The coils spaced closer together are softer, while those further apart are stiffer, with a short transition in between. They deflect different amounts at a given load weight throughout their length. They are more complex, and more complicated to design for a given application. If designed correctly for a given application, they add roll control in addition to anti sway bars within their narrower design parameters. They can transition greatly in ride feel inside or outside their more narrowly designed application, which could include something as simple as the number of passengers. They can be designed for lowered ride height applications even with more limited suspension travel. They can maintain larger load capacity in lowered applications, albeit with harsher ride quality.
few35t
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- New Albany, IN
So I’m reading through this and I’m confused on the chart about the drop for vwr springs which says 1.2” f and 0.8” rear. I thought realistically the drop was maybe more like 0.8” all around, possibly even less. Car has vwr springs and oem dampers with only like 45k miles but I’m planning on getting new springs, aftermarket dampers, new wheels/tires, maybe even 2 piece rotors or just new oem.
Looks like the bilstein shocks will be perfect. Goal here is most comfy ride but with more drop. Was thinking ED’s or maybe Eibach Sportline? I do like neuspeed springs but I had the race on my 8th gen civic (paired with koni yellows) performed great but whew, they were very stiff. What’s the best balance between most drop and comfortable daily driving?
Looks like the bilstein shocks will be perfect. Goal here is most comfy ride but with more drop. Was thinking ED’s or maybe Eibach Sportline? I do like neuspeed springs but I had the race on my 8th gen civic (paired with koni yellows) performed great but whew, they were very stiff. What’s the best balance between most drop and comfortable daily driving?
Hammersticks
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- Bay Area, CA
- Car(s)
- '16 GTI, '18 e-Golf
^That was the VWR advertised drop back in the day. In reality the drop used to be around 1.3” with reverse rake but guys with them now can correct me. Also, per the first post I would absolutely not recommend VWR or ED springs with B8’s. Complaints of too much compression. Again guys who have had those setups can chime in, but makes sense. Low spring rates combined with low compression rate on the B6/8’s = bumpstops / crashing.
This is my experience. Bilsteins either get stock springs or limited lowering springs like an H&R OEM sport, or something higher rate like Neuspeeds, IMO. Anything with a "10% increase in rate over stock" that lowers more than an inch will not be ideal. Consider Konis at that point. Or Coilovers.
EricsVdub
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Chicago 'burbs
- Car(s)
- 2019 GTI SE Exp pkg
Those things are generally incompatible. A comfy ride (which is subjective) is more likely achieved with linear springs and low compression damping rates, which require more suspension travel to stay off bump stops. Lowering ride height inherently reduces suspension travel, which requires stiffer spring and/or compression damping rates to avoid bump stops.
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few35t
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- New Albany, IN
Really? I didn't do any before and after measuring but I thought the drop was much more modest.
I honestly thought vwr would be considered limited lowering. Konis aren't off the table but maybe coilovers would be best.
mk7_bk
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Philadelphia Area
looking for some help here, lowered the car on coils, had an adjustment, then had alignment. car was ok, then springs compressed and it seemed like i was pretty slammed as far as low is. had some decent bumps since I was slammed. After a week, seemed like alignment was off. Took car back in to readjust things (Fix alignment), shop raised the front and all is now smooth as far as going over bumps and everything is.
It stills pulls to the left tho, so im thinking alignment is off. Last time I talked with the tech he was saying it could be due to being lower, but im 100% thinking alignment is off since springs compressed ect and the alignment shop need to redo their job. Tech said its possible I might need shorter front end links as the OEM ones are long and im still pretty low on coils.
What do yall think? Will another alignment fix this with OEM front end links/sway bar, or do I actually need shorter end links. Car did drive good on initial alignment, Now if i take my hands off the steering wheel it pulls left. Tech was saying it could be torque steer, which I never had before. Any advice is appreciated, thanks.
It stills pulls to the left tho, so im thinking alignment is off. Last time I talked with the tech he was saying it could be due to being lower, but im 100% thinking alignment is off since springs compressed ect and the alignment shop need to redo their job. Tech said its possible I might need shorter front end links as the OEM ones are long and im still pretty low on coils.
What do yall think? Will another alignment fix this with OEM front end links/sway bar, or do I actually need shorter end links. Car did drive good on initial alignment, Now if i take my hands off the steering wheel it pulls left. Tech was saying it could be torque steer, which I never had before. Any advice is appreciated, thanks.
Ikbrown
New member
- Location
- Fair Oaks, CA
- Car(s)
- 2019 Alltrack
Hey guys, I wanted to give a review of the Neuspeed Sport springs and Bilstein B8s that I installed last month now that I’ve had some miles on it. This thread and the installation thread were such a great resource to me in researching the various options and prepping for the install that I wanted to be sure to contribute regarding my setup.
I installed the Neuspeeds on my Alltrack so lowering was pretty significant from the stock raised height, -2.25" front and -3" rear, using the thicker Audi TT spring pads in the rear. I included some pics below since I was not able to find any pics of these springs on an Alltrack or Sportwagen - only GTIs and Rs.
In terms of the ride impressions I was VERY pleasantly surprised by how well these rode. For context to my experience with aftermarket suspensions, my last car I lowered using Tein h-tech lowering springs on stock struts (for about 40k miles) and then on ISC coilovers (for about 20k miles). After coming from coilovers that were objectively NOT road trip or wife/baby friendly I was hoping to get into a lowered setup that was comfortable but sufficiently firm to account for the amount lowered. I was drawn to the Neuspeeds due to the higher spring rate (260 front/290 rear) compared to other lowering springs as I had heard and read about people riding the bumpstops with springs marketed as ‘working with OEM dampers’ due to the lower spring rate not providing enough resistance over larger bumps. I’ve driven over 300 miles so far and even over bumps I expected to be jarring, the setup soaked them up nicely with firm rebound and control. First thing I noticed when driving is you can definitely feel the increased spring rate around town in that more road imperfections and changes transmit into the ride – not necessarily in a bad way – just that you have more feedback than the stock setup. Over larger bumps or expansion joints for bridges on the freeway, it is definitely firm but not crashy. The damping from the Bilsteins paired with the higher spring rate from the Neuspeeds seem to be very compatible in working together to quickly react to bumps. Overall I’m very happy with the ride quality and increased handling provided by the setup. Wife hasn’t issued any complaints either, which she did constantly when I was on coilovers. Ha.
I installed the Neuspeeds on my Alltrack so lowering was pretty significant from the stock raised height, -2.25" front and -3" rear, using the thicker Audi TT spring pads in the rear. I included some pics below since I was not able to find any pics of these springs on an Alltrack or Sportwagen - only GTIs and Rs.
In terms of the ride impressions I was VERY pleasantly surprised by how well these rode. For context to my experience with aftermarket suspensions, my last car I lowered using Tein h-tech lowering springs on stock struts (for about 40k miles) and then on ISC coilovers (for about 20k miles). After coming from coilovers that were objectively NOT road trip or wife/baby friendly I was hoping to get into a lowered setup that was comfortable but sufficiently firm to account for the amount lowered. I was drawn to the Neuspeeds due to the higher spring rate (260 front/290 rear) compared to other lowering springs as I had heard and read about people riding the bumpstops with springs marketed as ‘working with OEM dampers’ due to the lower spring rate not providing enough resistance over larger bumps. I’ve driven over 300 miles so far and even over bumps I expected to be jarring, the setup soaked them up nicely with firm rebound and control. First thing I noticed when driving is you can definitely feel the increased spring rate around town in that more road imperfections and changes transmit into the ride – not necessarily in a bad way – just that you have more feedback than the stock setup. Over larger bumps or expansion joints for bridges on the freeway, it is definitely firm but not crashy. The damping from the Bilsteins paired with the higher spring rate from the Neuspeeds seem to be very compatible in working together to quickly react to bumps. Overall I’m very happy with the ride quality and increased handling provided by the setup. Wife hasn’t issued any complaints either, which she did constantly when I was on coilovers. Ha.
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Ikbrown
New member
- Location
- Fair Oaks, CA
- Car(s)
- 2019 Alltrack
Thanks - really enjoying this new setup!
