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Old 09-09-2017, 10:02 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ColinStone View Post
Euro 6 diesels only achieve low emissions if driven at Austin A35 type acceleration and speeds. .
A massive exaggeration, but the principal equally applies to petrol engined cars, especially the di ones which are far more common than that earlier post suggests... They put back fitting particulate traps to petrol engines for three years when Euro 6 was introduced but now they are... Face it, we are going to have to accept full electric cars whether we like it or not fairly soon, i/c engines will go.
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Old 09-09-2017, 01:27 PM   #36
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Not so. The EU NEDC acceleration is painfully slow - the heaviest acceleration is 0 - 50 kmh in 28 seconds. Probably even slower than the A35!
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:42 PM   #37
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It's well known that the test sequence doesn't even invoke the turbo when driven the way they choose to do so to pass the test..


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:37 AM   #38
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Dream on, lads, one day you petrolheads will realise that the truth is that petrol engines are just as bad as diesels, just different pollutants...
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:26 AM   #39
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Dream on? It's a question of what compromise you want to make. Both are going away in the medium term because their time has been and long gone, but in the meantime diesels are significantly more poisonous to nearby humans, and have been for decades.


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:56 AM   #40
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Mighty glad I made the switch from diesel to petrol just under 2 years ago. Quieter, smoother and a gem of an engine plus 0 VED. And no diesel puddles to stand in at the pumps!
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:22 AM   #41
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I know that i am talking to the blinkered but in one of the motoring mags a while ago there was an article in the petrol vs diesel debate which made a lot of sense.

The author made the point that whilst one fuel made it difficult for people to breathe if it weren't "cleaned" the other one made it difficult for the planet to breathe. So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place as getting rid of one only increases the poisonous effects of the other.

He went on to say that until a viable alternative was available it was best to encourage the manufacturers to clean up both of these two fuels especially as the technology used tends to overlap, think fuel injction, cats and particulate filters to mention just three.

Take your petrolhead blinkers off and join the Real World getting rid of diesel only solves half of the pollution issue the other half, petrol, still remains and is made far worse.

Last edited by Hobby55; 09-13-2017 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:50 AM   #42
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Not blinkered, I for one totally accept both have to go, but in the mean time the use of diesels brings the pollution directly to our homes, the use of petrols doesn't, as much. Petrol Vs diesel on CO2 output seems moot. Modern petrols are achieving similar miles-per-CO2 as modern diesels are, even if the miles-per-gallon is different.


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:58 AM   #43
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You are blinkered because you dont seem to be able to accept that the euro 6 diesels are not like the pre 6 ones emmissions wise. Also petrol emmissions are not clean and do cause pollution "in the homes" try running a petrol engine indoors if you don't believe me though i doubt you'd be so stupid! As said if you get rid of one you increase the pollution of the other. You really need to take that petrol head off and look at the issues without the blinkers.

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Old 09-13-2017, 12:15 PM   #44
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Of course they are better at Euro6, and they were better at E5 too, but they still emit significantly more NOx than a petrol engine of similar performance and economy, and that is a key issue for health. That is the basis for my statement.

I didn't say "in the home" I said "to the home", i.e. the street outside it. If you want it be picky...


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:03 PM   #45
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You are blinkered because you dont seem to be able to accept that the euro 6 diesels are not like the pre 6 ones emmissions wise. You really need to take that petrol head off and look at the issues without the blinkers.
errr WRONG!!!

Emissions Analytics created the EQUA index & conduct real life on the road testing & this is now the standard for environmental testing of cars in UK EU...they did loads last year

list of ALL tested Euro 6 diesels here;-

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/e...bf1cb4967145f6

Category test result A, B, C is Euro 6 lab test result & better...

D, E, F, G, H, is a Euro 4 result or worse...

There are 97 Euro 6 diesel engines which according to the new EQUA index FAIL the Euro 4 lab test....

of those, 10 cars have results of "H" which is 12+ times MORE NOX than the
Euro 6 limit which they are supposed to meet as they are Euro 6 diesel engines..


I suggest that any diesel Euro6 huggers go read up the correct FACTS....

http://equaindex.com/equa-air-quality-index/
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:54 PM   #46
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There were a load of tests carried out by the roadside and petrol engines also broke all thieir guidelines. I am not a diesel hugger i am a realist but you petrol huggers need to admit to yourselves that petrol engines are also polluters and getting rid of one fuel will not currently solve the problem, just move it...

Btw that bottom link just concentrates on one polutant which is how we got into the mess we have at the moment. We need to look at the bigger picture i.e. all emmissions before doing yet another knee jerk reaction you are proposing.

One thing that needs to be addressed us the size/weight of cars. Reduce size and emmissions reduce... Do we really need all those big 4x4s and SUVs for a start... Time to look at the bigger picture.

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Old 09-13-2017, 05:29 PM   #47
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There were a load of tests carried out by the roadside and petrol engines also broke all thieir guidelines. I am not a diesel hugger i am a realist but you petrol huggers need to admit to yourselves that petrol engines are also polluters and getting rid of one fuel will not currently solve the problem, just move it...

Btw that bottom link just concentrates on one polutant which is how we got into the mess we have at the moment. We need to look at the bigger picture i.e. all emmissions before doing yet another knee jerk reaction you are proposing.

One thing that needs to be addressed us the size/weight of cars. Reduce size and emmissions reduce... Do we really need all those big 4x4s and SUVs for a start... Time to look at the bigger picture.

I was countering your statement of:- "You are blinkered because you dont seem to be able to accept that the euro 6 diesels are not like the pre 6 ones emmissions wise""

That list in the link proves that "emissions wise" in the real world that quite a few Euro 6 diesels do not even met the older Euro 4 regs..therefore your statement is incorrect.

Nox was well known about way back & which is why in the 80's there were learn burn petrol engines (FIRE) etc ...but then the development stalled because of the EU & they concentrated on Co2...all those in the know knew about the Nox..but got ignored...

never owned diesel & refuse to own one like my late step father...& he refused because he knew about the Nox etc...as he was a consultant heat transfer engineer & designed flue gas washing plants amongst other things.

Yes nox is one part....but that is the only major one which has been ignored...so yes look at the real world mpg test here:-

http://equaindex.com/equa-fuel-economy-index/

then look at the real world carbon monoxide results here:-

http://equaindex.com/equa-carbon-monoxide-index/

then the carbon dioxide:-
http://equaindex.com/equa-carbon-dioxide/

I have checked my engine & its very clean & as I run it on shell vpower its even cleaner. I know is the case as previous car which I ran on this the MOT tests always showed 100th of the allowed amounts for the test.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:47 PM   #48
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I am not a diesel hugger i am a realist ...
Excuse me, but this is quite hard to believe. All you say seems based on half-whisdom.
Diesel engines still emit significantly more NOx than a petrol engine. That's plain chemistry.
You can fight NOx emissions by using SCR cats and urea injection but the original issue
remains -burning Diesel is dirty. Not to mention commercial vehicles, ships, trains etc..
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:00 PM   #49
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Excuse me, but this is quite hard to believe. All you say seems based on half-whisdom.
Diesel engines still emit significantly more NOx than a petrol engine. That's plain chemistry.
You can fight NOx emissions by using SCR cats and urea injection but the original issue
remains -burning Diesel is dirty. Not to mention commercial vehicles, ships, trains etc..
The commercial vehicles, especially ships are what are really killing us
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:25 PM   #50
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Ships are polluting miles out at sea; what's killing us is idling engines in the streets and junctions by our homes and workplaces. CO2 emissions from ships are killing us, but that is a longer term concern.

I wouldn't call myself a petrol hugger, I am under no illusion about how stupid it is to burn fuel to make a car go. But I am confident the science tells me that diesels are a clear and present danger to my health, and petrol cars less so. While we aren't ready to move to fully electric we really should be moving away to the least bad of the two viable choices.


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG
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