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Old 03-16-2017, 02:49 AM   #1
mopar22
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Fca and Vw merger?

How would you guys feel about it if this merger were to happen? Apparently some of vw people are in auburn hills looking over fca books.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:48 PM   #2
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Well, on the surface, it sucks. Mercedes couldn't stomach Chrysler. The pentastar's curent dance partner, Fiat, makes some very beautiful cars, and has been extremely successful in turning itself around as a company, it doesn't exactly have a legacy of reliability, nor any real experience judging the American market very well, and Chrysler's bread and butter is still minivans and trucks...and of course its holy grail, Jeep.

Toss in VW? A company with pretty much two exciting cars in North America (GTI and R, both off the same platform), a recent history of Dieselgate shenanigans, and its own troubled experiences with reliability, market choices, and identity issues (is it a driver's car? is it a Corolla competitor? Is it a gateway drug for Audi or a perpetual bottom feeder for 20-somethings?), and I'm not at all sure the merger of FCA and VW sounds good.

Caveat: I loathe Chrysler with the incandescent fury of a thousand exploding suns. All because of the 1976 Dodge Aspen I was forced to drive starting in 1978 when my father died and I, at 16, was the only driver in the house, as my mother never did drive (and still doesn't, God bless her). Since then I've had an admittedly irrational hatred of Dodge, Chrysler, and before that, Plymouth. I also hate SUVs, pickups, and minivans (personal taste only, no criticism implied for those who need/like them, like my wife who drives an Escape), and find Chrysler's muscle cars, which admittedly are pretty solid for what they are, totally out of my interest zone these days (snow belt, mid-fifties, dislike of heavy Detroit rocket sleds that when I was 20 I would have loved).

tl;dr I'd run screaming from an FCA/VW merger, and in all probability it would mean my next car was a Mercedes for sure.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:36 PM   #3
wy2sl0
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I personally think Chrysler builds the absolute lowest quality of cars of all the large companies. Every one around my area is rusting. Their reliability rankings tell a huge story as well. To be honest, it really sucks they didn't go the way of the Dodo when the crash hit in the late 2000's. Big mistake bailing out a company (not a publically owned enterprise) that has made its own grave.

I am aware GM was in trouble as well. To be honest, my last 2 cars were GM's (low-mid end) and they still haven't got it right. Serious QC issues still. Disappointing.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:23 PM   #4
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I don't know. Based on past collaborations between the 2, such as the the rebadged Town & Country, I.e. Routan, I think it will be an amazing success.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:15 PM   #5
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I don't know. Based on past collaborations between the 2, such as the the rebadged Town & Country, I.e. Routan, I think it will be an amazing success.
Commercially, that could well be true. I'm coming at it from a driver and customer (who doesn't want minivans or the like) perspective mostly. VW will make its decision based on money, as it has to, so if there is potential for them to make money they might do it.

I am not sure what the impact would be on VW's current lineup of cars that are popular with folks like those on this message board. Maybe none, though Chrysler sure as hell needs a small car that is not the Fiat 500 or the Dodge Dart. But I'm guessing there's not much interest in Wolfsburg for the 4000lb RWD muscle car part of the lineup.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:38 PM   #6
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Well, on the surface, it sucks. Mercedes couldn't stomach Chrysler.
I think you need to do a little research on that first part. Chrysler was on the up in the 90's (while mercedes was way down) before Mercedes came in and took all their good people and money away. 2 yeas after they merged together Chrysler employees in Auburn Hills could already tell something was up when money for r&d was way down. By the late 2000s they decided to throw Chrysler into the deep end by selling them to a banking firm (they could have sold them to a car company instead that was interested at the time), that firm then took as much money as they could then let Chrysler be on their own again. Then as we all know bail out, had to get bought by fiat and now here we are wonder who's gonna dance with who.
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:49 AM   #7
TheWombat
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Originally Posted by mopar22 View Post
I think you need to do a little research on that first part. Chrysler was on the up in the 90's (while mercedes was way down) before Mercedes came in and took all their good people and money away. 2 yeas after they merged together Chrysler employees in Auburn Hills could already tell something was up when money for r&d was way down. By the late 2000s they decided to throw Chrysler into the deep end by selling them to a banking firm (they could have sold them to a car company instead that was interested at the time), that firm then took as much money as they could then let Chrysler be on their own again. Then as we all know bail out, had to get bought by fiat and now here we are wonder who's gonna dance with who.
Eh? Nothing I said contradicts your account, which is pretty much the standard account, except that I'd disagree that Chrysler was ever on the way up; with the exception of Jeep, the company had very little anyone wanted other than minivans. It's possible that Mercedes didn't try very hard to make a go of it, but then, Chrysler's market share sucked, and it had become pretty much a niche manufacturer--Jeeps and minivans. It's mainstream cars were dreadful, and Mercedes found out soon enough that there was zero synergy between a company that made mediocre cars for middle America and a company that prided itself on making luxury cars for the world market (not counting the domestic German market, which was and is more diverse in some ways).

There is no way you can spin it that makes Chrysler look anything but bad. Maybe not GM-bad in terms of totally stupid management, but the history of the company is pretty clear. They were utterly unable then, and pretty much now, to tap in to the mainstream once people abandoned boats like the 1970s era Chryslers (and once the original Rambler-origin Dart faded away).

Hey, I get it that people still love Chrysler. Good for them. If you want heavy cars with massive engines, chunky interiors built for Americans who feel everything has to be big to be good, or want a Jeep or minivan, woot, Chrysler has you covered. If you want anything else, forget it. Well, except a Ram truck I guess.
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