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Old 08-11-2017, 11:46 PM   #1
Ninjastyle
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Possible to negotiate below discounts

Hi, newbie here. (Newbie to the GTI world as well as to car buying. The last car I drove my boyfriend did all the talking. I like driving but I hate negotiating. He and I aren't together anymore so now I have to figure this out for myself... .)

I am interested in getting a 2017 GTI SE. Trying to decide whether to pull the trigger now or wait until later in the fall. I've been reading a bit about car buying online and one rule of thumb I've read is that 3-5% above dealer cost (invoice minus dealer incentives, holdback, etc) is considered a fair profit.

So I checked one of the dealerships in my area (New England) and I see they are advertising a 2017 GTI SE for $27.7K (MSRP $33.4K). I assumed this would be an inflated price that I should try to negotiate below. But then I went to TrueCar and looked up the same vehicle, and the TrueCar price is $29.1K.

It doesn't make sense to me that a dealer would be advertising a price below the TrueCar cost. Can someone please help? Thank you! PS. Can I assume that these discounts will only get steeper as we head into the fall?
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:56 PM   #2
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truecar is a lead generator. nothing more.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:08 AM   #3
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Need to just start emailing dealerships and find who will go the lowest. Then take that amount and tell Y dealership that X dealership will go to Z amount. Also make sure the car you want is on the lot of the dealership you are trying to make the lowest deal with. I did this just last week and was able to get my 17" sport dsg just over 26K OTD (24.9k sale price)

As for holding out closer to the release of the 2018s you run the risk of the 17's inventory depleting. Yes, the dealerships have the want to sell them but might not give as much of a discount with less availability in the area.

Also what dealerships have posted on the site aren't always what they will sell them for. I've seen a mix of MSRP and discounted prices when looking.

In the end, always remember you can walk away if you feel there is still money left on the table. Especially if you know another dealership has the same model of car you want.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:14 AM   #4
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Thanks for the input. This is helpful. Is there any way to figure out the invoice price? I was hoping to just go with the Costco Auto Program but unfortunately there aren't any Costco approved dealerships in my immediate area.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:15 AM   #5
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You don't need to know invoice. Invoice is overpaying. Start at this thread and read backwards from latest posts. Anyone who doesn't provide a full breakdown of costs is not providing sufficient information.

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8082
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:51 AM   #6
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Also keep an eye out for crazy dealer doc fees and add ons. Interest rates can also be negotiated. Most dealers can hold approximately 2 points of interest if they choose.

I would suggest getting a full break down of fees from a few dealers and compare. Make them work against each other. And try to get your own financing.

Tips from somebody who sells cars for a living. Just not vw so I cant help with cost haha
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:08 PM   #7
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This is what i did when i bought mine.

- Looked into different trim levels in a nearby dealership and finalized what i exactly wanted.
- Built a similar vehicle in VW webpage to know the MSRP including destination fee.
- Picked 10 different dealers who had lowest price for a similar vehicle using cars.com.
- Chose a specific car from corresponding dealer inventory page and read the fine note to see what are their additional charges.
- Email the dealer saying, this is the car i want and this is what i am willing to pay (including delivery and documentation fee).
- 7 out of 10 dealers got back.
- Negotiated everything through email or phone (sale price was around $6500 off sticker).
- Once the price was agreed, got my loan approved through my credit union.
- Checked with the nearby dealership to see if they can match the deal. Their quote was $4500 more than negotiated price and they said it was impossible.
- Stepped into the negotiated dealership to sign paperwork and was out in 30 minutes.
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:31 PM   #8
Ninjastyle
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Thanks, this is all very helpful.
When you first start contacting dealers, do you (a) ask them what they are willing to sell for, or (b) tell them what you think is a fair price? (How do I figure out what is a fair price?)
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:01 AM   #9
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Is the invoice price on the car public data? How is paying invoice overpaying?
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
Is the invoice price on the car public data? How is paying invoice overpaying?
Invoice is about $1k off MSRP on S and about $1.5-2k on autobahn. Considering most people get between $4 and $6k off MSRP paying invoice is overpaying.

MSRP, invoice, they are just imaginary numbers. The car has a certain value in the open market. That number is what people are willing to pay for the car. That is ~$5k off sticker give or take.
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
Is the invoice price on the car public data? How is paying invoice overpaying?
Its depends on the brand. For VW (esp GTI), paying invoice is overpaying as you can find deals more than $5000 off sticker.
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Diggs24 View Post
Invoice is about $1k off MSRP on S and about $1.5-2k on autobahn. Considering most people get between $4 and $6k off MSRP paying invoice is overpaying.

MSRP, invoice, they are just imaginary numbers. The car has a certain value in the open market. That number is what people are willing to pay for the car. That is ~$5k off sticker give or take.
I got a good deal then... I paid about ~18k for my Wolfsburg and with options the MSRP was a little over 23k! Dealers here were asking as much as 50k for Golf R's .... not sure if they actually did sell over MSRP or not.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:38 PM   #13
Ninjastyle
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Originally Posted by vj123 View Post
This is what i did when i bought mine.

- Looked into different trim levels in a nearby dealership and finalized what i exactly wanted.
- Built a similar vehicle in VW webpage to know the MSRP including destination fee.
- Picked 10 different dealers who had lowest price for a similar vehicle using cars.com.
- Chose a specific car from corresponding dealer inventory page and read the fine note to see what are their additional charges.
- Email the dealer saying, this is the car i want and this is what i am willing to pay (including delivery and documentation fee).
- 7 out of 10 dealers got back.
- Negotiated everything through email or phone (sale price was around $6500 off sticker).
- Once the price was agreed, got my loan approved through my credit union.
- Checked with the nearby dealership to see if they can match the deal. Their quote was $4500 more than negotiated price and they said it was impossible.
- Stepped into the negotiated dealership to sign paperwork and was out in 30 minutes.


So I tried emailing some dealers, referencing specific cars. When I ask them for their "best price" they simply send me a link to the web site which contains an advertised price. For example, 2017 GTI SE auto for $32.8K sticker, discounted to $27.4K (before any taxes and fees). Is that a good price or is that basically a really high starting point?

Oh, and I'm in New England. Thanks!
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ninjastyle View Post
So I tried emailing some dealers, referencing specific cars. When I ask them for their "best price" they simply send me a link to the web site which contains an advertised price. For example, 2017 GTI SE auto for $32.8K sticker, discounted to $27.4K (before any taxes and fees). Is that a good price or is that basically a really high starting point?

Oh, and I'm in New England. Thanks!

The TrueCar price for my region is $28.6K.

Sorry for all the newbie questions. Last car I had my boyfriend did all the talking. Need to do this for myself.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjastyle View Post
So I tried emailing some dealers, referencing specific cars. When I ask them for their "best price" they simply send me a link to the web site which contains an advertised price. For example, 2017 GTI SE auto for $32.8K sticker, discounted to $27.4K (before any taxes and fees). Is that a good price or is that basically a really high starting point?
You offer your price to the dealers based on the lowest market pricing.

Final price $27.4k + sales tax and title ($5400 off sticker) is a good deal. Just make sure there is no other dealers fees in addition to this.
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:32 PM   #16
Ninjastyle
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Possible to negotiate below discounts

Thanks everyone for your help! Here is how it went down for me:

1. I emailed a bunch of dealers in my area asking for their best price on the Golf TSI Wolfsburg I was interested in. (Universally they just gave me the price that was advertised on their respective web sites. So I probably could have just gotten the information from the web sites...)

2. I took the lowest quoted price and asked the dealer closest to me if they would beat it. They were willing to beat it by $150 but I had to use partner bank financing (which was fine with me since it happened to be a bank where I already do my banking), and I qualified for a rate of 2.7%.

3. I asked them why I couldn't access the promotional "0.9% for 60 months" that is advertised on the web site. They were willing to do that but gave me a much higher price. Something to do with a dealer incentive. In the end, I had 3 choices: $18.5K at 2.7%, $19.5K at 1.9%, or $19.8K at 0.9%. I stuck with the $18.5K.

4. Last night I joined SCCA, which is part of the VW Partner Program. Paid my membership fee (I think it was like $80 or something) and got my membership email 15m later.

5. After I negotiated the sale price I presented the certificate for $500 off. The salesperson immediately accepted it but the sales manager kept pushing back because the negotiated price was already more than $500 below invoice. Luckily I had printed out the FAQ from the VW website which states that it is $500 off the best deal if below invoice. Ultimately after a few "let me go talk to my manager" back and forths, the sales manager relented.

So I got a 2017 Wolfsburg for $18K. With fees etc it comes to less than $20K.

Last edited by Ninjastyle; 08-25-2017 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjastyle View Post
Thanks everyone for your help! Here is how it went down for me:

1. I emailed a bunch of dealers in my area asking for their best price on the Golf TSI Wolfsburg I was interested in. (Universally they just gave me the price that was advertised on their respective web sites. So I probably could have just gotten the information from the web sites...)

2. I took the lowest quoted price and asked the dealer closest to me if they would beat it. They were willing to beat it by $150 but I had to use partner bank financing (which was fine with me since it happened to be a bank where I already do my banking), and I qualified for a rate of 2.7%.

3. I asked them why I couldn't access the promotional "0.9% for 60 months" that is advertised on the web site. They were willing to do that but gave me a much higher price. Something to do with a dealer incentive. In the end, I had 3 choices: $18.5K at 2.7%, $19.5K at 1.9%, or $19.8K at 0.9%. I stuck with the $18.5K.

4. Last night I joined SCCA, which is part of the VW Partner Program. Paid my membership fee (I think it was like $80 or something) and got my membership email 15m later.

5. After I negotiated the sale price I presented the certificate for $500 off. The salesperson immediately accepted it but the sales manager kept pushing back because the negotiated price was already more than $500 below invoice. Luckily I had printed out the FAQ from the VW website which states that it is $500 off the best deal if below invoice. Ultimately after a few "let me go talk to my manager" back and forths, the sales manager relented.

So I got a 2017 Wolfsburg for $18K. With fees etc it comes to
Fun, isn't it.

Good job.
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