Thoughts on winter handling?

vj123 said:

"You need a driving lesson" term has been taken for granted many times here. I am not sure how many driving lessons you took go become an expert. I work with a team who do vehicle test for living and most of them has winter tires on their daily drivers and this is for a reason. Can you recommend a driving course to improve daily winter driving for professionals who already have grade 3 license to test vehicles on a track.





Aggressive is greatly subjective. And you are very happy with your Pirelli Cinturato P7 stock tires which many people here would very well disagree. What is aggressive to you, might be normal to me.





Thats the reason for performance winter tires existence which strikes a balance between dry, wet and snow with a good speed rating.

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Not claiming to be an expert beyond the 35 years of driving experience I've had in the Midwest winters with many different cars. I can speak from experience. I never ended up in a ditch unless I was messing around.

Not happy with the Pirelli's, just surprised they fare better for me compared to people who say "they suck". It's an average tire for sure, we'll see how they fare after 10K miles. Had some Kuhmo's that were very good up to about 12K mile mark, then they were horribly loud and had much worse wet driving characteristics. So bad, I took them off after 15K even though they still have a good amount of tread left.

Performance Winter tires are an oxymoron. Some are certainly better than others in the dry and above freezing, but they won't compare to a great A/S tire in the same conditions.

i live in Chicago and don't think winter tires are necessary anymore. I commute 30 miles highway on stock tires but the city is really good at clearing/salting the roads and it hasn't snowed like it used to for years now. All seasons would be a good choice but I haven't gotten to purchase it yet due to my conflicting decision between tires or tune. Stock sucks though, any slight acceleration = spin/loss of traction.

Ok I used to word “suck” very loosely and I agree it’s not really measure of anything, except my personal disappointment with a given product. It’s usually a combination of things, anyway...I really do no fall in the “street racer” category nor do I condone such behavior on public roads (I’ve been behind the wheel for 24 yrs)
I’m live in a rather hilly area and it snows in winter, so before cleaning crews are out there is snow or slush on those streets. I’ve driven vehicels with all sesason on those snowy streets and lot of times I’d spin the wheels or blow past the stop sign since I didn’t want to stop and not be able to take off. Those were not cheap all season either, Conti dw06. On my current Michelin x-ice I do not have those issues.
Crappy stock Pirellis have been much worse, they would loose traction in a bit of of a rain and if the temps start to approach freezing they’d turn into plastic and quickly go from bad to worst.
So I get what some of you are saying, roads are plowed, maybe a bit wet, I’ll be ok with all seasons...for the most part you are, but that one instance where plasticky Pirellis fail fo stop you in a safe distance and you crash into something ... avoiding that one time will be worth investing in proper winter tires.

heiney9 said:

I live in Illinois outside of Chicago. I have found the Conti DWS 06 to have the best compromises for snow, rain, and dry. I have run them the past 6 years on my MK5.

I have the Pirelli Cinturato P7 All-seasons on my MK7. They aren't as bad as people say. In fact based on people from this board and their vehement dislike, I have to say these are doing well. Haven't had any issues so far this Winter. I was going to replace them with DWS 06's right away. But I'll keep them on a bit longer now that they are better than people said. Still they are very average, but not as bad as people say.

It's a fact, I live in an area where I need a great all-season tire. The DWS 06 is that tire without giving up much in the dry. Read the comprehensive Tire Rack test reviews, if you drive in snow there isn't a better all-season tire that still does a great job in the dry and wet.

The other option is a dedicated snow tire. I did that for awhile on my MK3 VR6 GTi, it has it's disadvantages too.

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At first I was raving about the dws06. My wife has it on her civic hatchback. She refuses to get snows. That’s why she has the Contis. It’s great until you have wet snow. You will not make it up a 15 degree hill. At least, that’s my experience. Philadelphia in general doesn’t get a lot of snow and the streets are generally plowed so it’s ok.

The best all seasons, actually all weather is probably the Nokian wrg3. But it sucks in summer. Everything’s a tradeoff.

heiney9 said:

Performance Winter tires are an oxymoron. Some are certainly better than others in the dry and above freezing, but they won't compare to a great A/S tire in the same conditions.

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I have Performance winter tires and I am very happy with them. They offer a good balance under different conditions when one cannot manage their winter season with all season tires. Also they very well address the issues which you have mentioned below with winter tires.

heiney9 said:

Dedicated snow tires are better, but they have disadvantages too. Especially when the weather gets mild and/or there is no snow or ice on the ground.

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heiney9 said:

P.s. Ever tried to stop on snow tires when it's bare ground and 50* out? Scary and I used to run Blizzaks in the Winter, but the DWS 06 was 75% of a good snow tire as long as you don't drive like an idiot.

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True winter tires aren't shit without studs. I had Blizzaks and Hankook iPikes before, both stud-less. Everything seemed fine until I met up with ice or wet snow. Nothing grips ice, and if you are driving on top of wet snow, how the hell can anyone think ANY tire can cope with that? There is nothing to grip. My truck with M/T tires did damn good in wet snow because of the blocky tread pattern.

I have had the pleasure of driving a car with studded Nokians. Studded winter tires are where it's at. We sold the Blizzaks and use DWS's instead, on ice they are equally scary. DWS's are a good choice for many people.

I really like my Blizzaks. They make a big difference compared to all seasons. In a lot of northern countries, snow tires are required by law.

Another thing to keep in mind is that's it's actually very cheap to get snow tires in the long run as they last a long time when you only use them 5 months a year. Plus, in that time you aren't putting miles on your summer tires. My Blizzaks are on their 7th winter now, and still have tons of tread left. Its a no brainer to get snow tires.

On the stock pirelli cinturato in Boston winters it's either horrible tires or maybe the overall front heavy balance of the car, but it's one of the worst cars I have ever driven in winter. Couple of times just rolling in a straight line the car started to turn sideways. Fortunately I can take the train or work from home so I'm not really driving the car in snow anymore. If I had to drive it then I think you need a winter tire setup.

Bowser said:

I live in the Chicago area, and am in the middle of my first winter with my GTI. Wondered what others feel/experience in terms of their car's handling in ice/snow?

I have MT and am driving stock tires. I had a couple of instances where the skid control activated as I took corners on local streets. As a result, I've been driving VERY conservatively when the roads are at all slick.

My last couple of cars were small FWDs. I never had any problems with them in past winters - but I wonder if I have gotten into the habit of driving a little more aggressively in my GTI. I guess I also wouldn't have been as concerned if I had kissed a curb with my old shitboxes.

Any thoughts?

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I had been procrastinating about getting snows when the first snow took everyone, especially towns on the north shore by surprise. I was trying to get going from a stop on a 1% grade and the car was not even moving forward, just moving slowly to the right due to the crown of the road. I thought well, those rims aren’t going to be perfect in about...1 second.

It got some purchase just then and slowwwwly started moving. I’ve got tons of experience driving in ice and snow, it wasn’t the driver in this case it was the tires. The stock tires do not handle cold, ice, snow, or wet roads well. Some say they do, but that’s an uninformed opinion.

Pulled the trigger on the order already queued up at discount tire that day and now can drive in anything thrown onto the road by the Chicago winters.

It’s all about tires, in every car. Get some snows, it’s not that expensive in the long or short run.

About the dws06: they are pretty darn good in the winter. Ran them on my mk6 tdi. But they aren’t as good as a winter tire. For sure though in the high 40s and up, better than winter tires.

Still, prefer to be using winter tires than all season tires in Chicago winters. Sure, we don’t get the snow that we remember as kids, but it’s still cold, and the compound and tread are designed for it.


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This a.m. the roads were a sheet of glass. Snowed yesterday, then melted, with a freezing mist as I drove. Took it easy, and had absolutely zero problem. I'm fortunate that I do not have much of a commute, on level roads, with limited traffic.

chiefhiawatha said:

I had been procrastinating about getting snows when the first snow took everyone, especially towns on the north shore by surprise. I was trying to get going from a stop on a 1% grade and the car was not even moving forward, just moving slowly to the right due to the crown of the road. I thought well, those rims aren’t going to be perfect in about...1 second.

It got some purchase just then and slowwwwly started moving. I’ve got tons of experience driving in ice and snow, it wasn’t the driver in this case it was the tires. The stock tires do not handle cold, ice, snow, or wet roads well. Some say they do, but that’s an uninformed opinion.

Pulled the trigger on the order already queued up at discount tire that day and now can drive in anything thrown onto the road by the Chicago winters.

It’s all about tires, in every car. Get some snows, it’s not that expensive in the long or short run.

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You seem to be saying it's an uninformed opinion if it doesn't meet your take. In the winters we've had the last 2 years, the stock Hankooks have done a good enough job in the Detroit area where I live. Obviously winter tires would do a better job but yes they are expensive. Decent winter tires mounted and balanced will run $800.00+. That is not inexpensive.

I can report that from Atlanta, on Bridgeston Potenza Pole Position 3's that you will not be going anywhere in snow. I was unable to get out of my parking spot without spinning tires. When I finally pushed the car out and turned to get going forward, I just spun.

Even when it cleared up a few days later and there was residual snow on only some parts, I got stuck in a Publix parking lot because I parked in the shade and it was on an incline. Had to get help and push her up the hill.

I should note that I did live in KY for a while, so I do know how to drive on snow. No expert by any means, but not oblivious.

MSchott said:

You seem to be saying it's an uninformed opinion if it doesn't meet your take. In the winters we've had the last 2 years, the stock Hankooks have done a good enough job in the Detroit area where I live. Obviously winter tires would do a better job but yes they are expensive. Decent winter tires mounted and balanced will run $800.00+. That is not inexpensive.

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Fine and well have different meanings.

I’m sure a butter knife can cut a steak fine, or good enough. But I have other knives that are great at doing that.

It’s uninformed, as in not enough information or experience with the best tool for the task.

SpaceGhost said:

On the stock pirelli cinturato in Boston winters it's either horrible tires or maybe the overall front heavy balance of the car, but it's one of the worst cars I have ever driven in winter. Couple of times just rolling in a straight line the car started to turn sideways. Fortunately I can take the train or work from home so I'm not really driving the car in snow anymore. If I had to drive it then I think you need a winter tire setup.

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I have the Pirelli's P7 Cinturato A/S and honestly I'm not sure what people's issues are. It was wet, w/flurries this morning with patchy slick spots 23* temp. I went 3/4 to full throttle many times this morning and only a few times did the traction light come on. I've driven them in snow and had very few issues getting traction or stopping when driving sanely. I feel more confident in the MK5 with the DSW 06's in these conditions, but I don't feel unsafe in the MK7.

It's not a great tire like the best or 2nd best or even 3rd best in its class, but honestly I get none of the grip issues others have. It's an average tire. Perhaps it's because mine are still new (4400 miles). I know I have had Sumitomo's and Kuhmo's that were really good until they hit about 10K mile mark and then started to get noisy and by 12K miles they were really bad in the wet compared to when they were new.

So perhaps those that have issues where they seem to not be able to drive at all on the Pirelli's have many more miles than I do. Ever since I've been reading how horrible and "these tire suck" comments, I have been more conscious of trying to get them to imitate what others experience, I can't get them to be horribly sucky in the wet or snow, just average. Dry driving they are adequate.

P.s. In fact I almost swapped these out right when I bought the car based on everyone's disdain for the P7's. Glad I didn't waste a decent set of tires. Will I buy them again, no. Will I continue to drive on them for awhile, yes. Will I get rid of them before they wear out, most likely.