Car slower at full throttle than 3/4

Dr_Mat, this thread has been going on for a decent while now with multiple people chiming in that the difference is noticeable. Placebo comments have been long dismissed.

Easiest to tell when you give the car 3/4 throttle, then give it the last 1/4, and nothing changes, or the change is negligible. Happens to me all the time, part of me wonders if it's just finicky throttle mapping.

Oldschoolmk7 said:

Has anyone logged a 3/4-80% versus wot? That would probably give some data right?

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Since receiving my cobb recently, I've been meaning to. But since I can't share my tuner's logs I'd have to flash back to stock or Cobb OTS AND wait for a day with less-than-shit conditions to test it AND find a time to test it without traffic AND drive up to some nicer roads.

Haven't found the time yet but will get around to it... Eventually.

#torontoproblems

ashiun said:

Sure let me just drop a hundred bucks on a dyno BEFORE I spend 30 minutes googling for possible answers and another 30 consulting enthusiast forums.

Whether or not it's expensive to you has no bearing on whether or not it's expensive to me. Must you be condescending in a discussion on a topic that neither of us have "scientific proof" for?

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I think can scientifically prove that a big hole lets more air through than a small one, so why would you attempt to justify the position that a restricted throttle position will give you more power than a fully open one? My point is valid. Many well meaning intelligent people believe all kinds of things and they don't hold up to scientific interrogation. The human brain is nowhere near an absolute measuring tool.

Until someone has a Dyno run to show for it, I don't think this conversation is going anywhere.


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG

ashiun said:

Since receiving my cobb recently, I've been meaning to. But since I can't share my tuner's logs I'd have to flash back to stock or Cobb OTS AND wait for a day with less-than-shit conditions to test it AND find a time to test it without traffic AND drive up to some nicer roads.

Haven't found the time yet but will get around to it... Eventually.

#torontoproblems

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Plus the colder dense air I think makes it that more noticeable. I can rip around town barely needed to ever go over 2-3 psi. A good Cobb log should show something on throttle parameters. Thanks for checking when you can. Good luck. Surprised no one has done this yet...?

i noticed this before i found this thread debating the topic. definitely feels like full power comes on prior to pedal being all the way down, and when pushing the remaining amount there is no noticeable increased acceleration taking place.

2017 SE w/ DSG & JB4 map 6

Here is what I wrote on facebook when someone asked the same question - car is in closed loop 100% of time - , quote:

So the timing tables are actually based on airflow and not throttle or torque input. What can happen is while the interpolation between the timing tables is happening, you will get periods of more timing request with only slightly less airflow which is more than likely leading to greater power (this is assuming there isn't any pull).
The cars also run really hot from the factory for reduction of emissions and increasing fuel economy. Before the full load tables are activated you will run usually 0.1 lambda leaner (0.98-1.0 down to .9-.8 full load...this also helps with spool as exhaust gases are hotter) and although this is a tiny difference, it can all add up.
Furthermore, you are less likely to introduce high load, low RPM knock if you are rolling on the throttle. Since the ECU is pulling double duty when it detects knock events (pulls twice as much timing as the event it believes occured/occuring), this can also play into it.

But timing, fuelling, and boost tables are different per throttle opening, they have multiple dimensions so the full throttle table does not match the 75% table.


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG

dr_mat said:

But timing, fuelling, and boost tables are different per throttle opening, they have multiple dimensions so the full throttle table does not match the 75% table.


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG

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The car does not work on throttle input. It is computer controlled. 60% pedal could request 100% throttle opening depending on how the max torque tables are set. This is why 70% and 100% pedal can feel the same.

The timing and lambda set point are all airflow based. It doesn't work how you think it does with an air density torque targeting vehicle.

Anyone notice when you car is running good the gas pedal has more resistance. Just a little bit of throttle input and the car takes off. Also I have notice whenever my car is heat soaked I can almost put the pedal to the floor with no resistance but don't go anywhere.

Sweetjones_29 said:

Anyone notice when you car is running good the gas pedal has more resistance. Just a little bit of throttle input and the car takes off. Also I have notice whenever my car is heat soaked I can almost put the pedal to the floor with no resistance but don't go anywhere.

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Dunno what you're talkin about. The pedal has no way of varying resistance. It's in your head.

However it makes sense that, in Texas heat, you'd get the "pedal to the floor... but don't go anywhere" effect. Car pulls boost and timing to avoid knock when heatsoaked. In other words, your Turbo 2.0 becomes a NA 2.Slow

wy2sl0 said:

The car does not work on throttle input. It is computer controlled. 60% pedal could request 100% throttle opening depending on how the max torque tables are set. This is why 70% and 100% pedal can feel the same.

The timing and lambda set point are all airflow based. It doesn't work how you think it does with an air density torque targeting vehicle.

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Exactly. I would never argue that "nearly full throttle" and "full throttle" can't feel the same under some circumstances, but I would argue that no engine designer would write firmware that allows the car to be *quicker* on part throttle when the whole engine from the inlet onwards is governed by the ECU to be representative of what the driver wants - and the only way it knows what the driver wants is by reading the throttle position..


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG

I ran three 3rd gear pulls in a row. The first two were wot @ around 45-50 mph in 3rd @ 3200-3300 rpms. There is a strong initial hit with obvious correction with slight lag. On 3rd pull everything the same outside of 70-80% roll into it with pedal hitting floor 1 to 1.5 seconds later. Feels like zero lag nor hesitation. Actually saw traction control light flash 2 times during pull. Lol. Mental...? Or Magic...