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Turbo Inlet Pipe (TIP) Comprehensive Thread

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normcaldwell

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Denver, Colorado
MKVIISpec said:
Wanted to inspect the intake side of my turbo. When I removed my CTS TIP, I noticed all that buildup as well as some oil. Is this normal?
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Is that a black powder of some sort?
What type of air filter are you running?

The oil is normal, but not the black powder (if that's what it is).
 
MKVIISpec

MKVIISpec

Ready to race!
Location
Dallas, TX
normcaldwell said:
Is that a black powder of some sort?

What type of air filter are you running?



The oil is normal, but not the black powder (if that's what it is).
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Yes, it’s some type of soot. Not sure if it’s small amounts of dirt/sand that gets past the filter and collects on the oil residue.

I’m running an APR intake.
 
0

0bLiViOuS

Go Kart Champion
Location
Orange County
alper said:
Very simple question on the stock inlet: Why would any VW engineer opt for reducing the pipe diameter where it enters the turbo if you can clearly fit a constant diameter angle as shown in the APR's (and others') design? Unless you absolutely have to re-use an existing item for cost-cutting purposes, the stock part looks more complicated and expensive for no reason. Could it be that the tapering is on purpose to increase pressure?
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I did a big post on the difference I think in this thread on another page. Your idea is 100% spot on. They probably did it to increase the pressure ratio. Once we increase the boost over stock tho, having a free flowing elbow lowers it back to near-stock PR.
 
toledospeed

toledospeed

Go Kart Champion
Location
3rd rock
LeGti said:
FWIW, IMHO, every step I took in modding the intake (opened airbox, bmc filter, intercooler, R600 airbox, racingline TIP, Neuspeed turbo discharge, Spulen throttle intake pipe) made off-idle acceleration poorer, and higher-end acceleration better.

VW engineered their parts to the Nth degree, and no aftermarket parts are comparable. But most aftermarket parts do bring benefits in upper ranges and make for a wilder engine.
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AlienSP said:
Agree with LeGTI; after taking several fluid dynamics courses, I'll leave to the design engineers at VW. It doesn't make sense, but it might provide high velocity laminar flow making the bend.
If someone can provide objective evidence of noticeable gains, I'm open to be convinced otherwise.
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Well said! I shake my head when I see someone with a stock car adding this (or an intake) and thinking they are getting +10 HP. Was trying explain this back on pages 1 and 2:

toledospeed said:
At least we have some 3rd party data for a stage 2 car, good to see. Would love to see a stock dyno before and after and then we could extrapolate the curve for stage 1. All l have been saying is that putting this on a stock car is not going to yield the same benefit. An educated guess would be 2-3 HP stock, 4-5 HP stage 1, 8-10 HP stage 2, 11-13 HP stage 3.

As VWR astutely explains: "The higher your power level, the greater the benefit. That’s why the VWR High-Flow Turbo 90 is included in our Stage 3 upgrade – we simply can’t get to the power levels without it."

If stock, you will NOT gain 10 HP by adding this part. Gains will be negligible. Moving from 91 to 93 octane fuel will yield more HP. Seems promising for stage 2 and 3 cars though. The data so far shows this.
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W

wlfpck

Ready to race!
Location
United States
0bLiViOuS said:
I did a big post on the difference I think in this thread on another page. Your idea is 100% spot on. They probably did it to increase the pressure ratio. Once we increase the boost over stock tho, having a free flowing elbow lowers it back to near-stock PR.
Click to expand...

A lot of it can also be due to spool time. Stock tune is designed to feel relatively "torquey" at lower RPMs. When tuned, because the boost is now increased, parameters change.

On compressor curves, there is an area where the turbo is operating at the best efficiency (aka... efficiency zone). Garret and Stratified both have articles posted up on how/why the efficiency zone is so critical.

Once the car is tuned, you're demanding increased air flow (more CFM). To stay near the differential pressure of the stock turbo/tune, you'll need to decrease the pressure drop on the intake side.
 
W

wlfpck

Ready to race!
Location
United States
LeGti said:
FWIW, IMHO, every step I took in modding the intake (opened airbox, bmc filter, intercooler, R600 airbox, racingline TIP, Neuspeed turbo discharge, Spulen throttle intake pipe) made off-idle acceleration poorer, and higher-end acceleration better.

VW engineered their parts to the Nth degree, and no aftermarket parts are comparable. But most aftermarket parts do bring benefits in upper ranges and make for a wilder engine.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Made higher-end rpm acceleration better.

The choke in the OEM turbo inlet pipe is most likely there to increase the air velocity to help spool at lower rpms. When people reported faster spooling and such... a lot were just using a TIP with stock intake. No other modifications. Maybe an intake.

Could also be that you opened up/decreased the restriction so much on the inlet and outlet side that you lost power down low.
 
Faceman

Faceman

Autocross Newbie
Location
Long Island
Car(s)
'17 GSW 4Mo
0bLiViOuS said:
I did a big post on the difference I think in this thread on another page. Your idea is 100% spot on. They probably did it to increase the pressure ratio. Once we increase the boost over stock tho, having a free flowing elbow lowers it back to near-stock PR.
Click to expand...
Venturi effect or de Laval nozzle?
 
0

0bLiViOuS

Go Kart Champion
Location
Orange County
Faceman said:
Venturi effect or de Laval nozzle?
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Was familiar with venturi, but not de Laval nozzle so had to Google it haha. I couldn't tell you the reasoning and method 100% on their design, but I think we all agree the stock piece is great on a stock car and as we start messing with stuff, things need to be adjusted and this is one.

I personally had big doubts on but did it and felt a difference. It just removes the restriction and lowers the overall PR, and as stated above, gets the turbo more inline with the stock efficiency.
 
Mk7GTl

Mk7GTl

Go Kart Champion
Location
USA
0

0bLiViOuS

Go Kart Champion
Location
Orange County
Hey man it's Atlanta! He's almost as much of a ghost as me on the forums now haha
 
I

IBFreeman

Ready to race!
Location
Country Roads
MKVIISpec said:
Yes, it’s some type of soot. Not sure if it’s small amounts of dirt/sand that gets past the filter and collects on the oil residue.

I’m running an APR intake.
Click to expand...

Yikes.
 
MKVIISpec

MKVIISpec

Ready to race!
Location
Dallas, TX
IBFreeman said:
Yikes.
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I know right. I cleaned up everything and re-installed. I’ll remove and inspect everything again at my next oil change to see if it’s back. Really not sure what’s going on.
 
M

m3lonbr3ad

Ready to race!
Location
TX
0bLiViOuS said:
I did a big post on the difference I think in this thread on another page. Your idea is 100% spot on. They probably did it to increase the pressure ratio. Once we increase the boost over stock tho, having a free flowing elbow lowers it back to near-stock PR.
Click to expand...

I haven't done much digging for actual pressures, but does this logic hold true across the mk7 line? It seems the same part(5QM-129-635) is used in the Golf R that is used in the Golf. Does the pressure ratio that exists in the Golf R come close to that in the Golf?
 
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