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Integrated Engineering - Camber Plate Installation Question(s)

K

ktbaird

Passed Driver's Ed
Got it. That's probably something I'd want then. So anyone already have these installed? Make a big difference in how car handles? I'm adding this, rear lower and upper camber arms with sway bar. For track and autox events...

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K

ktbaird

Passed Driver's Ed
I'm thinking - 2.4 in front and -1.8 in rears. Toe in 1 to 2 degrees. Based just on what I've heard / read. I'm new to this...

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breaking badly

breaking badly

Banned
Location
St. Olaf
Running something like -2° of front camber makes a huge difference
compared to stock (-0°40' or little over -1° when lowered). It'll no
less than transform your car's handling.

You certainly don't want to run toe values of "1 to 2 degrees".
Stock (and common) is a toe in of +0°10' to +0°20' (while + means
toe in and 60' is 1° according to international standards).

I just don't get why you would want to swap "rear lower and upper
camber arms". You don't need to swap anything rear, since if at all
only adjustments are required on rear while there slight adjustments
are easily possible with the stock hardware. The only issue is on the
front, where you either need some camber plates or dedicated con-
trol arms or adjustable ball joints or both.
 
K

ktbaird

Passed Driver's Ed
breaking badly said:
Running something like -2° of front camber makes a huge difference
compared to stock (-0°40' or little over -1° when lowered). It'll no
less than transform your car's handling.

You certainly don't want to run toe values of "1 to 2 degrees".
Stock (and common) is a toe in of +0°10' to +0°20' (while + means
toe in and 60' is 1° according to international standards).

I just don't get why you would want to swap "rear lower and upper
camber arms". You don't need to swap anything rear, since if at all
only adjustments are required on rear while there slight adjustments
are easily possible with the stock hardware. The only issue is on the
front, where you either need some camber plates or dedicated con-
trol arms or adjustable ball joints or both.
Click to expand...
This is great as in my post you can clearly see I'm blindly modding and the stores won't stop me on buying stuff that's for sure. Thanks for the explanation on stock toe in. That's what I'm after is keeping it close to stock. Here are links to the other parts for the rear. Maybe it's not necessary but these all seem like good parts and with driving the car hard esp in AutoX, I want to be in the best setup I can.

Spulen Adjustable Rear Camber Arms
http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Steer...-Arms/Spulen-Adjustable-Rear-Camber-Arms.html

Rear upper
https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Stee...ir-Motorsport-Rear-Upper-Adjustable-9030.html

Sway bar
Question on sway bar or rear brace as better mod to complement all these parts mentioned with KW V3s?

This adjustable 22mm from 034 motorsports also recommends the spherical end links. Thoughts? (Then I'm done! Thx)

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Last edited:
crxgator

crxgator

Autocross Champion
Location
Raleigh, NC
Car(s)
All the MQBs
You don't need camber arms for the rear. The best setup won't make you the best by the way. It can potential throw you into a group that you would do terrible in.

The rear camber can be adjust to -1.8 with stock arms.


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K

ktbaird

Passed Driver's Ed
Thx. So these products likely a waste? Anyone have first hand experience with them? Maybe they will at least make it easy for me to adjust camber? I'm all for throwing my $ towards something with great value for my purposes... 034 sway bar with these spherical endlinks is not cheap.

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crxgator

crxgator

Autocross Champion
Location
Raleigh, NC
Car(s)
All the MQBs
You can adjust camber with the stock arms. There is no need for these kits.


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crxgator

crxgator

Autocross Champion
Location
Raleigh, NC
Car(s)
All the MQBs
This is my car car lowered with camber plates set at -2* up front and stock rear arms in the rear untouched.




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K

ktbaird

Passed Driver's Ed
crxgator said:
This is my car car lowered with camber plates set at -2* up front and stock rear arms in the rear untouched.




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Click to expand...
I'm scrambling... some of these parts on backorder so may still be able to cancel without dealing with return process. I think I'll keep the Spulen part but the other seems like a GTI upgrade... not R. Total debacle here....

I've been told by more experience drivers that setup is holding back... sure I can continue to improve but I can't get power to the ground as these 350z in class do. The tune bumps be into a class with little restrictions (BSP)

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Last edited:
breaking badly

breaking badly

Banned
Location
St. Olaf
While pillow-ball style joints would admittedly enhance precision, at the same
time they'd tend to raise NVH or even make ride almost unbearable (depending
on your own perception). That being said, unsealed ball joints will inevitably
wear quickly. That's why they're used in racing but commonly not on the street.
Despite that, there's no additional adjustment required since stock is sufficient.
You want' more camber on front, though you want to retain stock camber on
rear. Stock -1°30' to -2°00' is anything you want on rear for performance, as
this is much more than stock front, giving the factory setup a safe understeer
character, while the same rear camber, matched with - say - about -2° of front
camber, providing a pretty neutral handling on a 'race tuned' GTI or R.

Don't waste you hard earned money on unnecessary rear suspension gimmicks.
For best performane first do what's most important:

- front camber
- front LCA bushings
- quality suspension (dampers, coilovers, matching spring rates)
- sway bars (front and rear)
- tires
- proper adjustments
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- try different rear toe adjustments**
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time

I'm not a fan of the popular 'rear sway bar only' philosophy. If at all it' help
those guy who still suffer fron insufficient (stock) front camber. You're going
for camber plates, you will have sufficient front camber, you'll be able to cure
virtually any understeer with camber and toe settings and tire pressure. As a consequence you don't need (and want) a "mismatching" sway-bar imbalance.
You want to either keep the stock sway bars (if your main springs are stiff) or
swap both sway bars at the same time.



** anything's possible; rear toe out would make it understeer ony any turn
 
K

ktbaird

Passed Driver's Ed
breaking badly said:
While pillow-ball style joints would admittedly enhance precision, at the same
time they'd tend to raise NVH or even make ride almost unbearable (depending
on your own perception). That being said, unsealed ball joints will inevitably
wear quickly. That's why they're used in racing but commonly not on the street.
Despite that, there's no additional adjustment required since stock is sufficient.
You want' more camber on front, though you want to retain stock camber on
rear. Stock -1°30' to -2°00' is anything you want on rear for performance, as
this is much more than stock front, giving the factory setup a safe understeer
character, while the same rear camber, matched with - say - about -2° of front
camber, providing a pretty neutral handling on a 'race tuned' GTI or R.

Don't waste you hard earned money on unnecessary rear suspension gimmicks.
For best performane first do what's most important:

- front camber
- front LCA bushings
- quality suspension (dampers, coilovers, matching spring rates)
- sway bars (front and rear)
- tires
- proper adjustments
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- try different rear toe adjustments**
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time

I'm not a fan of the popular 'rear sway bar only' philosophy. If at all it' help
those guy who still suffer fron insufficient (stock) front camber. You're going
for camber plates, you will have sufficient front camber, you'll be able to cure
virtually any understeer with camber and toe settings and tire pressure. As a consequence you don't need (and want) a "mismatching" sway-bar imbalance.
You want to either keep the stock sway bars (if your main springs are stiff) or
swap both sway bars at the same time.



** anything's possible; rear toe out would make it understeer ony any turn
Click to expand...
Thanks for your time and input here man. I've seen your posts elsewhere on the topic as well.

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Swoope

Swoope

Ready to race!
Location
orlando
breaking badly said:
While pillow-ball style joints would admittedly enhance precision, at the same
time they'd tend to raise NVH or even make ride almost unbearable (depending
on your own perception). That being said, unsealed ball joints will inevitably
wear quickly. That's why they're used in racing but commonly not on the street.
Despite that, there's no additional adjustment required since stock is sufficient.
You want' more camber on front, though you want to retain stock camber on
rear. Stock -1°30' to -2°00' is anything you want on rear for performance, as
this is much more than stock front, giving the factory setup a safe understeer
character, while the same rear camber, matched with - say - about -2° of front
camber, providing a pretty neutral handling on a 'race tuned' GTI or R.

Don't waste you hard earned money on unnecessary rear suspension gimmicks.
For best performane first do what's most important:

- front camber
- front LCA bushings
- quality suspension (dampers, coilovers, matching spring rates)
- sway bars (front and rear)
- tires
- proper adjustments
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time
- try different rear toe adjustments**
- seat time
- seat time
- seat time

I'm not a fan of the popular 'rear sway bar only' philosophy. If at all it' help
those guy who still suffer fron insufficient (stock) front camber. You're going
for camber plates, you will have sufficient front camber, you'll be able to cure
virtually any understeer with camber and toe settings and tire pressure. As a consequence you don't need (and want) a "mismatching" sway-bar imbalance.
You want to either keep the stock sway bars (if your main springs are stiff) or
swap both sway bars at the same time.



** anything's possible; rear toe out would make it understeer ony any turn
Click to expand...


that covers it all.

the rsb covers the lack of front camber till you realize you killed your front tires!

now if we can nail down a modestly priced set of coilovers that have camber plates that are semi track worthy, and dont rattle like a bitch..

lol

beers
 
K

ktbaird

Passed Driver's Ed
I probably should be writing a 1k plus check to B. Bad for saving me on these mods. I'm passing on the Sway Bar and seeing how the car and I performs with these Plates!

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crxgator

crxgator

Autocross Champion
Location
Raleigh, NC
Car(s)
All the MQBs
swoope said:
that covers it all.

the rsb covers the lack of front camber till you realize you killed your front tires!

now if we can nail down a modestly priced set of coilovers that have camber plates that are semi track worthy, and dont rattle like a bitch..

lol

beers
Click to expand...

Deutche Auto Parts coilovers are $900 right now. They are ST XTA rebrands.
 
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