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Old 10-12-2017, 07:12 PM   #3452
Diggs24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Heim View Post
Is there a way to bias the AFR request at all? There are some spots on a couple maps that I would prefer to run richer. Or, would that simply mask a flaw in the map that I should address in a different way?
You can make it run leaner but not richer. Not that I know of anyway.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:16 PM   #3453
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Originally Posted by Diggs24 View Post
You can make it run leaner but not richer. Not that I know of anyway.
Not sure I can think of a reason to ever make it run leaner.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:20 PM   #3454
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Hello
I have golf mk7 gti , catless downpipe , intake , 100 fuel +e85 = e30 , +2 C
I think , i have a bad boost (dont reach 25psi)
My car running 11.7s 100-200
Are logs ok?
Thank you!)

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Old 10-12-2017, 07:29 PM   #3455
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At +2C, the air is pretty dense, and you likely don't need the boost.

This link covers that: http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=698
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:30 PM   #3456
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Originally Posted by Elidcom View Post
Hello
I have golf mk7 gti , catless downpipe , intake , 100 fuel +e85 = e30 , +2 C
I think , i have a bad boost (dont reach 25psi)
My car running 11.7s 100-200
Are logs ok?
Thank you!)
Can you post your log to datazap please? Or enable the target boost? Looks like a map1 log in cold weather.

Also, what gears are these 2? looks like 2nd and 3rd. You won't get full boost in 2nd.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:45 PM   #3457
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Originally Posted by 0bLiViOuS View Post
I don't check my forums for a day and all this talk of air density haha.

In a nutshell what users are saying about absolute versus additive are correct. Additive will make consistent power basically all year. It uses the stock ECU logic of upping the boost automatically in the heat to compensate for less dense air. This is load based tuning and gives you reliable performance regardless of temp and gives you turbo "a break" in the winter months your could say lol. The only downside I see to this are the guys maxing out their turbo in the winter, and then going to change it in the summer.. to me they should be running absolute. If you're going to be running +7psi in the winter and then turning it down to +4-5psi in the summer, it's no different then just an absolute and losing power in the summer.

Absolute will be faster in the winter and slower in the summer. This is due to air density as users have said. I run this more because it's the old school method and I like it lol. I know regardless of temp, I don't want to push my turbo past Xpsi. It might be adding 10psi in the winter and 0 in the summer (ok maybe not 0 but I'm using extremes for examples). In the sake of turbo longevity, I didn't like when my JB1 peaked at 27-28psi, so I'm not allowing it to hit that on the JB4. I could use additive with boost limit, but then it'll just go to the stock map and I rather target my maximum and I don't have to worry about it reverting. It's all just prefernce though in the end and some cars seem to respond better to one method versus the other. Everyone with me?

Now for some examples. Below are some values on the air MASS. I'm using these values based on some cold weather and warmer weather IATs I've seen:

4500rpm 40F@22psi = 31.34lbs/min
6500rpm 40F@15psi = 36.92lbs/min

4500rpm 100F@25psi = 30.46lbs/min
6500rpm 100F@17psi = 35.19lbs/min

4500rpm 100F@27psi = 31.80lbs/min
6500rpm 100F@18psi = 36.30lbs/min

THe purpose of giving these is to show that although some of the cold weather guys aren't pushing too much boost, you're actually pushing more air than the warm air guys right now, and to get similar performance in warm weather, you'd have to peak pretty high. This is also why some of you might be getting timing issues.
Great write up! Thanks
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:22 PM   #3458
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Originally Posted by Digilio86 View Post
In the middle of reading this thread but I figured I'd jump in and share a couple logs.

My car is FBO IS38 APR with 3.5 to 3 inch exhaust

This log shows just the apr tune after a long night of ridding around. (Cruiser weekend in Ocean City MD) no meth



Second log is Map 6 (methanol injection ) dialed in after working with George for like a week. Don't have a screen shot of my settings as I'm not at my car right now but I think it's 5000rpm +2 5500rpm +4 6000rpm +3 6500rpm +4 7000rpm +2 stacked on the apr tune. (Road wasn't the smoothest)

Thanks for all the great info guys. Glad to be here!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm debating IS38 and APR tune....impressions?
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:27 PM   #3459
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Originally Posted by psychonosspaz View Post
I'm debating IS38 and APR tune....impressions?
Why would you debate IS38, but be concerned with a DP install? One of those is much more reversible than the other.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:22 PM   #3460
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Originally Posted by Diggs24 View Post
Can you post your log to datazap please? Or enable the target boost? Looks like a map1 log in cold weather.

Also, what gears are these 2? looks like 2nd and 3rd. You won't get full boost in 2nd.
It wad 3rd 4th gears
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:35 PM   #3461
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Well, you won't be able to hit 25psi at 5k on an IS20 anyways. That's wishful thinking. You won't ever hit anywhere near any of that from 5k on up. You can hit 19psi at 6k with some aggressive settings and higher IATs, but you won't hit anywhere even near 23 at 25C. You need to turn it all way down.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:20 PM   #3462
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Originally Posted by Diggs24 View Post
Well, you won't be able to hit 25psi at 5k on an IS20 anyways. That's wishful thinking. You won't ever hit anywhere near any of that from 5k on up. You can hit 19psi at 6k with some aggressive settings and higher IATs, but you won't hit anywhere even near 23 at 25C. You need to turn it all way down.
What settings of map 6 can u recomend(good boost line)? I need the most aggressive map for racing and checking my 100-200kmh)
Thank you)
Usually i use map 2)
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:36 PM   #3463
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What settings of map 6 can u recomend(good boost line)? I need the most aggressive map for racing and checking my 100-200kmh)
Thank you)
Usually i use map 2)
Try these (yes they are additive):

https://datazap.me/u/diggs24/log-150...log=0&data=1-3

Also, setup an account on datazap so we can see logs. Those pictures are too hard to look at and don't show all the necessary data (I can see you run lean around 5k).
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:32 AM   #3464
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Originally Posted by Jay_Heim View Post
Why would you debate IS38, but be concerned with a DP install? One of those is much more reversible than the other.


Eventually.....DP is more immediate thought
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:55 AM   #3465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Heim View Post
Not sure I can think of a reason to ever make it run leaner.
There are two train of thought. Some tuners will run it lean till around 5000rpm which helps with spool and midrange power. ED is a good example of this. Others run it in between at high 13's till around 4000 and then drop into the mid to high 12's.

The goal is to run it leanish without triggering the EGT safety. Once the safety is triggered the AFR will run up to 2 points richer. When this happen its normally in higher gears which most people in the US do not experience. If the car is set too rich and it hits the safety it the AFR can become dangerously rich. We have locked the max bias to avoid this but also run it at such a point that the safety is rarely triggered. The operation of the safety is within the normal operating parameters of the ECU and happens relatively often on the stock AFR levels.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:01 AM   #3466
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There are two train of thought. Some tuners will run it lean till around 5000rpm which helps with spool and midrange power. ED is a good example of this. Others run it in between at high 13's till around 4000 and then drop into the mid to high 12's.

The goal is to run it leanish without triggering the EGT safety. Once the safety is triggered the AFR will run up to 2 points richer. When this happen its normally in higher gears which most people in the US do not experience. If the car is set too rich and it hits the safety it the AFR can become dangerously rich. We have locked the max bias to avoid this but also run it at such a point that the safety is rarely triggered. The operation of the safety is within the normal operating parameters of the ECU and happens relatively often on the stock AFR levels.
Hey George - thanks for the reply. In terms of the JB4, considering it runs within stock AFR specs, is there any benefit to be gained by leaning it out around 5000rpm? There was a user here a few pages ago that adjusted the fuel bias to 0 by mistake, which caused a massive lean spike. In theory, would adjusting the fuel bias to hit the low 14.x's add to power/spool?

I am certainly not going to monkey around with that, but theorycrafting is fun
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:34 AM   #3467
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Originally Posted by Jay_Heim View Post
Hey George - thanks for the reply. In terms of the JB4, considering it runs within stock AFR specs, is there any benefit to be gained by leaning it out around 5000rpm? There was a user here a few pages ago that adjusted the fuel bias to 0 by mistake, which caused a massive lean spike. In theory, would adjusting the fuel bias to hit the low 14.x's add to power/spool?



I am certainly not going to monkey around with that, but theorycrafting is fun


Yea that was me....don't adjust while driving is the lesson
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:55 PM   #3468
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Ok I got a small log in. I just set it to map 2 and promptly logged a pull. I'm not sure if there is an adaptation time for JB4. Didn't push 3rd high enough to see what my timing looks like. This was on 91 octane, I'll have 94 on my next fill-up. Mods in sig.

~56f ambient
https://datazap.me/u/ashiun/oct-14-m...-4&zoom=38-132

This is the real start of my logging journey so I'm not clear on a few things:
1) I see some timing adaptation (?) on cyl. 2 and 3. Is this normal?
2) Is target just the amount of psi I'm supposed to be hitting above ECU requested PSI, and as long as load is relatively equal to target I'm all gucci?
3) My AFR is above 14 throughout, and reaches 16.2 at one point. What am I to do about this? Reading back a few pages suggests that I should raise my FOL from 50 to 60 for richer mixture and therefore lower my AFR. (Higher AFR number is leaner... right?). Which leads to my next question.
4) Does changing FOL or boost safety affect preset maps like map 2? If not, what FOL is it defaulted to?

If I'm to replicate map 2 in map 6 as a starting point, do I just assign additive values matching the existing target values I took from logging map 2?
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Last edited by ashiun; 10-14-2017 at 02:45 PM.
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