SEAT LEON 5F from Spain

Good afternoon from Spain.

I´ve recently bought a SEAT LEON 5F TDI to do lot of kilometers per year on my own.

Is the same MQB platform as the 5G MKVII GOLF and want to make little mods to improve the suspension.

I´ve tried the car on b-roads and my first impressions are that it understeers, the damper/spring combo isn´t good, but in general it´s not a bad car. Of course it can be improved.

As it is a rear beam axle (basic model), I can´t make a proper set-up/allignment with the standard base (just front toe can be changed) so I have to install new parts and must be OEM spares or I will loose the warranty.

After studying several posts regarding front axle grip enhancement, I conclude that I have two different ways but need help from you:

- MK7 GOLF GTI CLUBSPORT S SWIVELS

-2º fixed negative camber.
Doubts: May I use the standard wheel bearing or is it
imperative to use TT 8S 85 mm. wheel bearing?. May I use my
standard drive shafts?
Problems: I have to change the front dampers for the 55 mm.
diameter struts (mine´s 50 mm.)

- MK3 TT LOWER CONTROL ARM

+/- 10 mm. track width increase per side so more fornt end
grip and camber adjustable.
Doubts: May I use my standard tie rod ends?. Are the TT 8S
LCA suitable with the standard drive shafts?.

In both cases I am going to revalve the standard dampers but conservating the OEM stickers (cheat, I know).

Which option do you think is the best and less technically difficult?

Thanks.

Any swap to the alloy front swivels requires 85mm bearings as that is what they are made for....80mm is only for the cast iron swivels...

Any swap to alloy swivels requires 55mm dampers, as again that is what they are made for...50mm is made for cast iron...


I have standard cast iron swivels & 50mm dampers...no understeer....

BUT I have the VW factory fit "sports suspension"...& I have the multilink rear....& 225mm wide tyres on 17inch alloys.....makes a huge difference...

The rear beam axle will always be your downfall with that car...

What tyres & size are you running?...looks like 205mm 16inch as a standard fit for the spec...

Congratulations to your new car. To be honest I’m a little bit confused with your problem and your conclusion.

You don’t like damper/spring combo and want to keep your warranty. As a conclusion you’re talking about experimenting with parts that are not designed for your car and at the end you want to revalve your OE shocks and keep the stickers? Personally I’m very interested to see how you revalve your twintube OE shocks. I work in that business for quite a while now, maybe I can learn something.

Last time I drove a Leon in Europe I didn’t like the damping and spring combo either. Specifically I didn’t like the weight transfer and roll behavior. This week I worked on a Pickup Truck in AZ and with small changes to the shock valving I was able to change the trucks behavior from understeer to a perfect drift truck.

Why don’t you just start with a proper aftermarket suspension set if damping and spring combo isn’t ok for you? It’s a relatively easy change and how does that effect your warranty?



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golfdave said:

Any swap to the alloy front swivels requires 85mm bearings as that is what they are made for....80mm is only for the cast iron swivels...

Any swap to alloy swivels requires 55mm dampers, as again that is what they are made for...50mm is made for cast iron...


I have standard cast iron swivels & 50mm dampers...no understeer....

BUT I have the VW factory fit "sports suspension"...& I have the multilink rear....& 225mm wide tyres on 17inch alloys.....makes a huge difference...

The rear beam axle will always be your downfall with that car...

What tyres & size are you running?...looks like 205mm 16inch as a standard fit for the spec...

Click to expand...

Hi Dave and thanks for your reply.

Right, I have 205/55 r16 "eco - green" tires fitment as standard.

The rear beam could not be a problem for handling after study it a lot and always can made shims to adjust camber and toe.

Then, if I install the CSS swivels I need the 85 mm. bearings and the 55 mm. dampers. Do you know if I can use my standard drive shafts?.

ZERO815 said:

Congratulations to your new car. To be honest I’m a little bit confused with your problem and your conclusion.

You don’t like damper/spring combo and want to keep your warranty. As a conclusion you’re talking about experimenting with parts that are not designed for your car and at the end you want to revalve your OE shocks and keep the stickers? Personally I’m very interested to see how you revalve your twintube OE shocks. I work in that business for quite a while now, maybe I can learn something.

Last time I drove a Leon in Europe I didn’t like the damping and spring combo either. Specifically I didn’t like the weight transfer and roll behavior. This week I worked on a Pickup Truck in AZ and with small changes to the shock valving I was able to change the trucks behavior from understeer to a perfect drift truck.

Why don’t you just start with a proper aftermarket suspension set if damping and spring combo isn’t ok for you? It’s a relatively easy change and how does that effect your warranty?



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Click to expand...

Hi Zero and thanks for your reply.

Main problem is that in Spain the dealers won't attend the manufacturer's warranty if the parts installed aren't OEM, so I can't install any aftermarket damper/spring combo until the car has two years.

The OEM twin-tube dampers are sealed and have to be opened and revalved by a specialist. Mainly opens the damper, changes piston, shims, valves, oil and so on and close it making them rebuildable. It is often made here in Spain by several suspension specialists.

As will be done to the OEM dampers, I will mantain the OEM stickers

Every day you learn something new. I spent so many weeks of my life in Spain and didn’t know that.

Just for curiosity, are you saying dealers won’t even attend warranty for an engine part if you changed shocks?


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ZERO815 said:

Every day you learn something new. I spent so many weeks of my life in Spain and didn’t know that.

Just for curiosity, are you saying dealers won’t even attend warranty for an engine part if you changed shocks?


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Click to expand...

If you want I can send you "before/after" shock dyno graphs of another car I had with OEM dampers revalved.

Regarding your question, the dealer won't attend an engine failure if can demonstrate that has been due to aftermarket installed parts

5FLeonMods said:

Hi Dave and thanks for your reply.

Right, I have 205/55 r16 "eco - green" tires fitment as standard.

The rear beam could not be a problem for handling after study it a lot and always can made shims to adjust camber and toe.

Then, if I install the CSS swivels I need the 85 mm. bearings and the 55 mm. dampers. Do you know if I can use my standard drive shafts?.

Click to expand...

Driveshafts fit ok as they are the same...use your existing driveshafts...


I'd get rid of the tyres & fit 225/45R17.....& get lightweight 17inch alloys....

also change the front anti roll bar for a thick one form the R or CCS....or cupra....


Adjusting camber & toe won't do much if the basic suspension is old bad design.....you could find a crashed cupra & swap all the rear multilink ..might be possible...

golfdave said:

Driveshafts fit ok as they are the same...use your existing driveshafts...


I'd get rid of the tyres & fit 225/45R17.....& get lightweight 17inch alloys....

also change the front anti roll bar for a thick one form the R or CCS....or cupra....


Adjusting camber & toe won't do much if the basic suspension is old bad design.....you could find a crashed cupra & swap all the rear multilink ..might be possible...

Click to expand...

If the driveshafts fit, it would be the swap cheaper and easier.

As the car has only 116 technical horsepower (1.6 TDI MY2018) I think a 205 width tyre is more than enough. Of course I will change the "eco-green-low consumption" tires for a more sporty and sticky tires next summer.

Changing the front sway bar for a thick one will increase understeer. That´s why I want to increase front end grip.

Once I got the car one month ago, I played with the tire pressures to let the rear more lively and actually I have 2,4/2,6 F/R bar tire pressures. It was barely noticeable, but was my first mod/improvement, and free. With this tires 2,2 or 2,3 at front the steering floats on curves.

To drive my car (no mods yet) fast on b-roads and through corners I have to play with lateral and front/rear weight transfer to swing the rear and exit corners faster. Like the rally "Scandinavian Flick" driving technique but in an amateur way.

Swapping the rear beam to the multilink will help for sure but I will study this option in a future.

5FLeonMods said:

As the car has only 116 technical horsepower (1.6 TDI MY2018) I think a 205 width tyre is more than enough. Of course I will change the "eco-green-low consumption" tires for a more sporty and sticky tires next summer.

Changing the front sway bar for a thick one will increase understeer. That´s why I want to increase front end grip.
.

Click to expand...

225/45R17 is a lower sidewall, so less flexing of tyre, better control in corners....

Lower the ride height mine is -15mm from factory....eibach springs do -30mm...lower ride height means lower centre of gravity, = less roll

thicker ARB at front does not always mean more understeer.....springs/dampers & suspension type play a part...

my car has the CCS one (very thick) fitted at factory....I don't have understeer...

golfdave said:

225/45R17 is a lower sidewall, so less flexing of tyre, better control in corners....

Lower the ride height mine is -15mm from factory....eibach springs do -30mm...lower ride height means lower centre of gravity, = less roll

thicker ARB at front does not always mean more understeer.....springs/dampers & suspension type play a part...

my car has the CCS one (very thick) fitted at factory....I don't have understeer...

Click to expand...

Dave you are right but I think that with some clarifications:

Lower sidewall could mean stiffer sidewall and less tyre flexing so better control in corners. It could be but a 225 is a lot of pattern for just 116 hp. and I prefer a narrow sticky tyre rather than "normal" and wider one.

Don't want to lower the car at the moment. Just better handling, and lower CG doesn't mean less roll. It will depends on geometries. -15 mm. would be fine and enough. But to do that I need to know all OEM spring rates.

Dampers and springs are more important for me than anti roll bars.

5FLeonMods said:

It could be but a 225 is a lot of pattern for just 116 hp. and I prefer a narrow sticky tyre rather than "normal" and wider one.

Don't want to lower the car at the moment.

.Dampers and springs are more important for me than anti roll bars.

Click to expand...

If that's the case don't bother with the alloy swivels then.....as the geometry for those is set up for wider tyres & stiffer ARB, lower ride height, etc., etc...