Scratches after first wash - what did I do wrong!

I need to chime in here on the CSG care issue...I just bought my 2017 Sport 3 weeks ago. It only needed a single step correction (except for a few areas that required a bit more work). Brought out my trusty Porter Cable and Meguiars 205, followed by Blackfire Wet Diamond sealant, and the paint came out about 95% perfect. I was very happy with the results.

I washed the car last weekend using the standard 2 bucket method, with my thick Detailers Image wash mitt, and dried with multiple clean waffleweave micro fiber towels (like I have done on all my cars with perfect results). When I was done, there was subtle micro marring all over the paint.

My question is if VW paint is noticeably more fragile then say Audi or BMW paint...my wife had a charcoal X5 diesel that I never had this problem, and my previous Audi SQ5 (admittedly white) never had this happen. Same detailing and washing procedure. I would appreciate any feedback from my equally over-anal brothers and sisters here!

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WRXRay said:

I need to chime in here on the CSG care issue...I just bought my 2017 Sport 3 weeks ago. It only needed a single step correction (except for a few areas that required a bit more work). Brought out my trusty Porter Cable and Meguiars 205, followed by Blackfire Wet Diamond sealant, and the paint came out about 95% perfect. I was very happy with the results.

I washed the car last weekend using the standard 2 bucket method, with my thick Detailers Image wash mitt, and dried with multiple clean waffleweave micro fiber towels (like I have done on all my cars with perfect results). When I was done, there was subtle micro marring all over the paint.

My question is if VW paint is noticeably more fragile then say Audi or BMW paint...my wife had a charcoal X5 diesel that I never had this problem, and my previous Audi SQ5 (admittedly white) never had this happen. Same detailing and washing procedure. I would appreciate any feedback from my equally over-anal brothers and sisters here!

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Sorry to hear

I would bet they occurred during the drying process. I used to dry my car using only DI waffle towels, 2 or 3 of them, and I induced drying swirls into my clear. I changed the way I dry cars entirely since, I blow off the vast majority of the water with a leaf blower, then I pat-dry the bulk of what's left. Then, only after that do I use the drag method of drying where I need to, spraying a mist of ONR at 1:15 dilution onto the waffle towel first, as a drying lubricant.

Other than that, maybe the wash mitt needs washed? I wash my DI mitts every 3 washes. I also use 2 mitts, upper panels, lower panels.

Good luck! Hope you figure out how it happened.

PouncingPanzer said:

Sorry to hear

I would bet they occurred during the drying process. I used to dry my car using only DI waffle towels, 2 or 3 of them, and I induced drying swirls into my clear. I changed the way I dry cars entirely since, I blow off the vast majority of the water with a leaf blower, then I pat-dry the bulk of what's left. Then, only after that do I use the drag method of drying where I need to, spraying a mist of ONR at 1:15 dilution onto the waffle towel first, as a drying lubricant.

Other than that, maybe the wash mitt needs washed? I wash my DI mitts every 3 washes. I also use 2 mitts, upper panels, lower panels.

Good luck! Hope you figure out how it happened.

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Thanks for the input...you could be right. I probably do not clean my microfiber towels enough. I do spray the car with ONR prior to drying. I wish I didn't give a crap about this stuff, life would be so much easier! Thanks again!

I may get laughed at, but you know how I dry my car and avoid scratches/swirls?



Works like a charm. Gets the water out of your honeycombs, lugnuts, around the gas cap, all drainage channels around doors and lights, etc. You obviously have to be very mindful not to whack your car with the tip, but I am extremely vigilant with this and have never had an issue. You also have to be careful when you get to the wheels not to kick up sand, debris, etc.

BlueHen said:

I may get laughed at, but you know how I dry my car and avoid scratches/swirls?

Works like a charm. Gets the water out of your honeycombs, lugnuts, around the gas cap, all drainage channels around doors and lights, etc. You obviously have to be very mindful not to whack your car with the tip, but I am extremely vigilant with this and have never had an issue. You also have to be careful when you get to the wheels not to kick up sand, debris, etc.

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I have that identical blower...nice with the infinitely adjustable speed control. I am going all out and buying a foam gun for my electric power washer and will use my Toro for drying. The only part of the paint that will be touched by humans will be the door handles

Yep. That is my exact blower as well. The power dial is indeed cool, although I can't think of a scenario where I've used it at less than full blast! It's longer than my previous Toro, so I do have to be mindful of the tip. Having a good wax bead helps immensely, time-wise.

BlueHen said:

I may get laughed at, but you know how I dry my car and avoid scratches/swirls?

Works like a charm. Gets the water out of your honeycombs, lugnuts, around the gas cap, all drainage channels around doors and lights, etc. You obviously have to be very mindful not to whack your car with the tip, but I am extremely vigilant with this and have never had an issue. You also have to be careful when you get to the wheels not to kick up sand, debris, etc.

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I have to mix gas for my car dryer

WRXRay said:

Thanks for the input...you could be right. I probably do not clean my microfiber towels enough. I do spray the car with ONR prior to drying. I wish I didn't give a crap about this stuff, life would be so much easier! Thanks again!

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No problem man. I feel your pain, lots of us do lol.

Kudos on using ONR, stuff is god.

GTDave said:

Hi all,

Need some advice as i am perplexed at what went wrong!

So got my new shiney black Golf a week Saturday, so this Sunday I decided to give it it's first clean.

Bought myself the scratch-shield kit of 2 buckets, grit guard, wash mitt, cherry shampoo (which was rather good).

As I dont have a jetwash I simply hosed down the car to start with, paying special attention to the lower area of the car, around the wheel arches, wheels, lower door areas and sills.

Once I was happy that most of the dirt was gone I moved on to using the mitt and the 2 buckets.

I started on the roof and worked around and down, rinsing the mitt often.

Once I was down to the top of the doors etc I switched and started on the bonnet, drivers door, passenger door, rear and around.

One thing to note at this point is I thought the idea of the mitt was to bury any dirt within its fibres to keep it away from the surface, I noticed that even after a good rinse, I had to pick out pieces of grass and other such fibre type rubbish (no grit mind! or from what i could tell)!

Rinsed the car off and then started to use the microfibre drying cloth I had to dry off the car.

While doing the drying I noticed that when I got to the rear of the car there was some VERY small swirly marks/scratches, they are really faint and minor but in my opinion caused by the first wash.

I dont really want to repeat the process until I know what I did wrong.

Was it me? The mitt?

any advice most welcome.

Cheers

Dave

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Quite easy and a common problem for some, the dirt sticks to the car from when it is wet, so you need to re-wet the soiling, simply hosing the panels is not wetting them, you need to pre spray (with shampoo , TFR or citrus cleaner or similar), leave to dwell for a minute or two then rinse off.
Then you can move onto your bucket wash or whichever method you prefer ( personally I prefer touchless, I keep my panels polished and waxed and I understand that the wax is a sacrificial layer, so I'm willing to sacrifice that every few months) .

^^My beef with touchless is that it isn't cleaning the car to 100%. If i'm going through the effort, it's getting cleaned 100%. Will I induce swirls eventually? Inevitably yes, but that's what random orbitals and a polish every 5 years is for. Which, isn't extreme at all.

Also, anything with the word "citrus" in it is above a pH of 7, so it is not wax and polymer friendly. Keep in mind. But, I guess for waxed vehicles that is fine as it is good to remove old wax from time to time. Citrus cleaners are acidic however. Pre-treatment with a balanced shampoo with good/abundant surfactants is best. It is best to hit it with shampoo first, then rinse.

Look into AMMO NYC's Winter Boost additive. It is LOADED with good surfactants and foaming agents. Makes any soap you have a but more effective out of a foam gun or cannon. Even in the bucket it is a noticeable difference. Very slick stuff, it is mixing with CarPro Reset very well for me. Gives it much needed suds.

Before going into trying new products though, I would get a second mitt, wash the current one, and try again. Using two mitts was one of the most noticeable changes I have ever made to my washing process. When the lower panel one is nasty and stained, downgrade the upper and get a new upper.

PouncingPanzer said:

Using two mitts was one of the most noticeable changes I have ever made to my washing process. When the lower panel one is nasty and stained, downgrade the upper and get a new upper.

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What mits, PP?

IBFreeman said:

What mits, PP?

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I use DI Microfiber cuffless mitts. $10. Wash with my towels and they hold up well. I have tried expensive Merino wool mitts before and they are delicate and seem to not hold up. Plus, having to brush out the tangled hairs is a pain. A soft, high quality grout sponge is also a good choice on a lightly/moderately solid surface. Lake Country, DI, and Optimum all make great grout sponges that are soft and hold quite a bit of debris and soap. Not as much as a good mitt however, that's why they are a tad safer imo.

PouncingPanzer said:

I use DI Microfiber cuffless mitts. $10. Wash with my towels and they hold up well. I have tried expensive Merino wool mitts before and they are delicate and seem to not hold up. Plus, having to brush out the tangled hairs is a pain. A soft, high quality grout sponge is also a good choice on a lightly/moderately solid surface. Lake Country, DI, and Optimum all make great grout sponges that are soft and hold quite a bit of debris and soap. Not as much as a good mitt however, that's why they are a tad safer imo.

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PM me a link to the mit ASAP, please. I have a cart full on DI. Currently have the sheepskin, but will trade out for something better.

PouncingPanzer said:

^^My beef with touchless is that it isn't cleaning the car to 100%. If i'm going through the effort, it's getting cleaned 100%. Will I induce swirls eventually? Inevitably yes, but that's what random orbitals and a polish every 5 years is for. Which, isn't extreme at all.

Also, anything with the word "citrus" in it is above a pH of 7, so it is not wax and polymer friendly. Keep in mind. But, I guess for waxed vehicles that is fine as it is good to remove old wax from time to time. Citrus cleaners are acidic however. Pre-treatment with a balanced shampoo with good/abundant surfactants is best. It is best to hit it with shampoo first, then rinse.

Look into AMMO NYC's Winter Boost additive. It is LOADED with good surfactants and foaming agents. Makes any soap you have a but more effective out of a foam gun or cannon. Even in the bucket it is a noticeable difference. Very slick stuff, it is mixing with CarPro Reset very well for me. Gives it much needed suds.

Before going into trying new products though, I would get a second mitt, wash the current one, and try again. Using two mitts was one of the most noticeable changes I have ever made to my washing process. When the lower panel one is nasty and stained, downgrade the upper and get a new upper.

Click to expand...

I see this age old argument about pH values, just for your correction, the pH value is a log unit, so at pH 8-9 at a 1:10 mix gives a 7-8 solution, not that pH strips wax.
Any rubbing of a mitt sponge cloth whatever will exert a force on the panel where the grit lays between said cleaning implement and panel.

Brilliant lot of input here. I can only add a few additional comments/suggestions.
I have read that the clear coat hardens with time and may not be at maximum if the car is new.

Pick a non-windy day vs dust/grit in the air. First, clean around the arches and hose downwards... there's True Grit there.

Instead of mits I use a plastic-bristled broom that comes with soft bristles pre-frayed at the ends. Squirt off grit with hose then dip broom in strong car-shampoo in soft (preferably rain) water in an oil drain pan then "paint" the solution all over. Never scrub but rather touch/apply the bristles on the surface such that the slight pressure has all the bristles pointing towards the direction you are going to stroke the broom. With the lightest pressure you can, only the bristle TIPS are touching the paint and there are thousands of them digging under and lifting the dirt. Dirt goes between the bristles and they should not exert enough side pressure to grip the dirt. Whenever re-dipping the broom in the solutio for more, jiggle the bristles (pointing down) in the solution and dirst fall out.
Before the solution dries, hose-squirt off (top down) until no foaming of detergent occurs. Inspect for missed spots and re-do. Sometimes I do the lot again as the big broom width makes it quick.

Rinse off tap water with clear rainwater if available. When tap water dries it leaves behind dissolved salts as spots or a dulling film.

I see no problem with towelling dry. Use clean dry towels (usually two) and first flick the towels free of any dirt and loose fibres, then flop it over the far side off the panel and simply pull by the edge nearest you but not putting your hand inboard to exert pressure. It leaves my car free of spots. The weight of a virtually dry towel can't grind any grit under it into the paint. Down the sides I just try to avoid pressure and simply dab the drops in other places.

"They" say you don't need polishes/waxes with clearcoats but I find the washes afterwards easier and like the idea of a barrier. The dual wash-and-wax at the same time products seem good.

For the life of me I cannot see how clay bars cannot cause scratching. When you rub your bare hand or hand in a plastic bag and feel grabby bits, what are they? Anyone got microscope photos?