Helix Soundbox VW sound upgrade HELP!

buddahbus said:

I have read through pretty much this whole thread and haven't found anything about adding an aftermarket amp/sub with the helix kit. Does anyone know if/how this is possible?


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Not sure if it was this thread or the other rental dongle thread but it has been discussed a bit. Basically, if you're going to change any components on this kit, you'd be better off starting with an LC2i or LC6 using the speaker outs and building your own upgrade.

Since everything is "matched", changing or adding anything would throw off the DSP tuning a little or a lot, depending.

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buddahbus said:

I have read through pretty much this whole thread and haven't found anything about adding an aftermarket amp/sub with the helix kit. Does anyone know if/how this is possible?


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flipflp said:

Not sure if it was this thread or the other rental dongle thread but it has been discussed a bit. Basically, if you're going to change any components on this kit, you'd be better off starting with an LC2i or LC6 using the speaker outs and building your own upgrade.

Since everything is "matched", changing or adding anything would throw off the DSP tuning a little or a lot, depending.

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I agree with flip-flop that if your initial intentions are to get the Helix Soundbox and then add an LC2i, amp and another sub it would be better off to skip the Helix Soundbox and go a full custom route.

However, if you add the Helix Soundbox and decide you want a little more bass and control then I don't think it's a bad idea (especially since the Helix Soundbox is now about $260 shipped) but I'm not sure if you will still get you want.

If you check on this thread from vwvortex there is a member (Stealth_TDI) that plans to add an LC2i, amp and sub to the Helix Soundbox. See post #85 from this thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8368426-Helix-Subwoofer/page4

I think that upgrading the sub is probably the only thing you can "get away" with changing a bit, without blowing all the tuning out of wack.

An LC2i does have an "accubass" circuit designed to remove the 40hz or so roll off from the factory headunit, so you would actually gain low end bass response going that direction.

If there end up being some good results, I'd consider something like this myself if I got bored of the helix bass. No question about it.

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Just want to add, after digging a bit more on the "stealth_tdi" posts, it looks like he's used the fender sub outs to feed the LC2i, effectively using it only to remove the bass roll off and add an external amp with volume control via RCA outputs.

That might have been extremely clear to a few with knowledge of the LC2i but I wanted to point that out.

What that means is the helix signal to the speakers is 100% unchanged, only the sub output is modified.

As long as you didn't use a massive sub with weak frequency response above 200hz or so (I assume the tiny woofers in the helix are used for some mid-bass fill in by design) then you shouldn't end up with any noticeable holes in frequency response, versus stock helix components. You will get much more thump though!

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I finally coded my Helix Soundbox and here are my observations:

1. There is a noticeable bump in the bass output from the sub. Originally when I installed the soundbox I thought the bass lagged a bit behind the rest of the sound so I had to up the bass settings +2 or 3. After coding it's perfect and I have my sound settings flat across the board.

2. I'm not sure the overall sound has changed in regards to the DSP. I mean it sounded good before and now it just sounds better to me since the bass has improved.

3. I would say if you have the Helix soundbox then you should definitely get the dongle and make sure you program it. Even though you might see the same program number when you connect the dongle, press the button down so the dsp can initiate and complete with an alternating 'PF' and the program number (57 in my case). There is a sound difference and for me it was certainly a positive one!

While I have this dongle, I don't mind meeting up with people locally and coding their soundbox. I also plan to go to a few shows like Wookie In The Woods and Waterfest this year at the least so I can bring the dongle with me.

Hope this helps...

After I had the Helix Soundbox amp warranty replaced in mine, I asked the VW tech if he programmed the amp back (3rd or 4th visit to this dealer!), and he said yes. Had the car for a week a could tell something was totally whack with how everything sounded. The highs from the tweeters were overwhelming and would fatigue my ears and front soundstage sounded kind of odd. Vocals also would get drowned out in certain music. Ended up bringing my car back to a closer dealer that has the dongle few days ago, when he plugged it in, it was programmed to #31 for VW Beetle. Programmed it back to #35 for Jetta and everything sounded balanced and great again. So yeah, definitely double check the programming for this if you have it dealer installed, programming makes a big difference. If your around Connecticut, Valenti Volkswagen in Watertown has the Helix dongle in parts and will program the amp for free.

I got my Helix installed this weekend, took me about 2 hours total, I disconnected my battery and bought the radio removal tools and the terminal tool to make life easy. Only place where I had any real hold ups was getting the CD player back into the dash now that there was some extra wiring behind it.

First reaction, like a lot of people was "well it sounds different!" but different didn't equal good right away. You do have to get used to it, but I'm sure it'll change again for the better once it's programmed. A few things I think have changed, that is affecting the sound the most:

Mid-range and mid-bass have moved. It sounds like most of the lower mids have been moved to the sub, so the sound stage is really high (like 2 feet off the dash, not at dash level like before). Without a lot of that mid fill coming from the doors the tweeters sound like they are doing a lot of the work. I'm hoping that changes a bit with programming, it leaves everything feeling unbalanced because some directional sound is only coming from behind you.

Having never A/B'd a stereo after time correction, I'm just guessing that is one of the biggest changes thats affecting the music now. Echos/reverbs are much more dramatic, and separated, and layered music (think rock w/electronic elements, I was listening to Radiohead's In Rainbows this morning) has very dedicated separation of instruments that the mix doesn't want being on the same stage, if that makes sense. That dramatically changes some songs, not in a bad way (I think) but certain songs that I've become very familiar with how they sound overall have changed a lot.

The gain level at the Helix is just too damn high. I usually never took my stereo over 50% on songs that needed some volume knob. A lot of more compressed music would never need more than 40% or less. Now, I feel like 25% is 40%+, and I just think it's unnecessary. I'd much prefer having the whole volume knob to work with, if I need it.

Also my EQ and faders are zero'd/reset.

I'll post again once I get the unit programmed

Pre and post programming is like an entirely new system. Really can't compare, sounds nothing alike.

wy2sl0 said:

Pre and post programming is like an entirely new system. Really can't compare, sounds nothing alike.

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Well I'm still going to compare them If for nothing else, just so I critically listen to before and after, then when I say "programmed it sounds great, totally worth it" I'll have something to back it up with.

Looking forward to getting it programmed!

Another radiohead fan

I'm curious to hear the difference between before and after programming

speaceage said:

Thanks for the response guys.
Lucky you peekay34! The dongle does not come with the Soundbox here in the US... but I'll give Spokane VW dealership a call and see if they can lend the module to my dealership. Thx again!

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Hi speaceage, were you able to get the dongle through your dealership via the Spokane dealership? I just had the Helix installed in the Seattle area but none of the local dealerships can locate the dongle.

I'm impressed with the new setup but am anxious to have it tuned properly. Cheers!

Had mine installed at the dealer today. Quite a large improvement! Normally I install stuff like this myself, but I also needed to have the fuel pump recall done, so I said screw it, do them at the same time, I'll just pay and save myself several hours of hassle. Guess I'm just getting older and lazy, haha.

Crown VW only charged $120 out the door including taxes, which to me is pretty reasonable after hearing stories of people being quoted like $500 in labor alone by dealers. The unit itself was about $250 through the dealer, so I'm out around $350 total, minus whatever VW parts rebate I get (12-15% I think), so I'm very satisfied.

They said it didn't need to be coded, but I still don't trust dealers, so I'm going to double check it whenever it's my turn in the dongle rental thread.

Side note: Does anyone know why Sirius is so much louder and bass heavy than MP3s or CDs? I always forget when switching back to Sirius after listening to MP3s, and fear I'm going to blow the speakers one of these days!

Hotfart said:

Side note: Does anyone know why Sirius is so much louder and bass heavy than MP3s or CDs? I always forget when switching back to Sirius after listening to MP3s, and fear I'm going to blow the speakers one of these days!

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Sirius/XM Satellite radio is extremely compressed even when compared to Mp3s now. Yes it's "HD" compared to FM, but it's very compressed and loud to translate to multiple playback options. It's not the Audiophile's choice by a long shot.

I know you can with AUX, but is there a volume option for SAT radio as well? That would help to save your speakers and ears!

flipflp said:

Sirius/XM Satellite radio is extremely compressed even when compared to Mp3s now. Yes it's "HD" compared to FM, but it's very compressed and loud to translate to multiple playback options. It's not the Audiophile's choice by a long shot.

I know you can with AUX, but is there a volume option for SAT radio as well? That would help to save your speakers and ears!

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Good to know. We're on the same wavelength, because I looked all over for a setting to turn the SAT volume down, but couldn't find anything. Oh well, I'll just have to train myself to be more mindful of it!

flipflp said:

Sirius/XM Satellite radio is extremely compressed even when compared to Mp3s now. Yes it's "HD" compared to FM, but it's very compressed and loud to translate to multiple playback options. It's not the Audiophile's choice by a long shot.

I know you can with AUX, but is there a volume option for SAT radio as well? That would help to save your speakers and ears!

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Sirius/xm radio sounds much worse than plain old FM. Since FM is analog and XM is very low bit rate digital. There's nothing "HD" about Sirius.

FWIW, I recommend Amazon, Pandora, Spotify, and Last FM. Though you need a smart phone and a decent data plan to take full advantage of those services. On the plus side they all stream audio in much higher quality than Sirius.