How's the GTI with PP on track?

wave said:

Also, even though Freshpots feels it wouldn't add anything in lap times, Volkswagen tests at the Nürburgring Nordschleife track have shown lap-time improvements of more than eight seconds on cars equipped with the new differential. That's quite significant.

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^^^

wave said:

Because it's not...

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That's like saying a McPherson Strut is not an independent front suspension design because it's not a double-wishbone design.

Okay, so it's an "axle lock" and not a "diff lock". But the end result for the user is the same, no? (Seriously, I'm asking, I'm open to the idea that I have no friggin' clue what I'm talking about). Each axle is able to be locked to the other and power sent to either without the use of the other wheel's brakes.

I get where you're coming from, the two work differently and the VAQ isn't even housed in the diff cage. But an external combustion chambered engine still has a combustion chamber, you know what I mean?

I'm really not trying to be an argumentative ass and I'm open to the idea that I may be completely misunderstanding how exactly the VAQ works, but after all the reading I've done on it, I've come away with the understanding that it behaves just as a mechanical diff lock would, albeit with some computer-controlled behavior.

EDIT: I found this thread very infomative over on Piston Heads a while back when I was trying to understand how this thong worked: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...&i=40&nmt=RE: VW's VAQ 'diff' explained&mid=0

This post in particular seems to sum it up well:
"The "Cleverness" of this new system is that it allows VW to use one single mains gearbox for ALL of their models (which reduces costs and parts count / build differences) and then just bolt on the appropriate system. (be that a blanking plate for no LSD, a Bevel gearbox for the 4wd cars, or this new "LSD" for the hot front drivers).

"The fact that the clutches are "external" to the diff cage is really irrelevant in terms of operation, they still act to control the differential speed (slip) between the halfshafts and the Crownwheel/diffcage, just like a conventional LSD does.

"The benefits of this "external" packaging come at build time and to reduce production costs by lowering parts count differences between models, and this makes for a high volume for any given part and hence a lower piece cost!"

I never said the end result wasn't the same. I said it has been shown to perform better than a tradition LSD. And just because the clutches are external doesn't make this claim irrelevant. I stand by what I said, because it's correct.

No, this is not a mechanical limited slip differential.

No, one axle never "locks" to the other. The clutch pack is located only between the right side half-shaft and the transmission.

Yes, it gives the same outcome during driving.

The end.

Streetspeed, you will be disappointed getting back into a GTI. You've tasted the glory of rwd, I would forget VW for good when it comes to the track.

Two cars come to mind that exactly fit your requirements, i.e. install pads, tires and go - an E46 M3 or a newer 335i with factory sport suspension. These cars stock will demolish fwd VW's and have a much higher performance envelop out of the box. No modifications required for a fun occasional HPDE and they'll perform more along the lines of your Vette.


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So I'll just throw this out there-

I have a non PP that I tracked in Houston in August and it kinda sucked. It was my first time doing a HPDE in a FWD car, so keep that in mind. I could definitely use more seat time to figure out how to accelerate out of turns in the FWD car to keep inside wheel slippage to a minimum, but the non-LSD pulses the brakes to keep it in check. With that in mind, I could get 1.5laps at 100% (on a short track that's hard on the brakes) before I could smell the brakes. I also had stock fluid/pads, so that would obviously make a difference.

The point is, I didn't feel completely confident the car would get me home if pushed too hard. The PP might help a bit. If I remember correctly, after a hard lap my oil temps were ~260...

I've done 3 days of HDPE (7 sessions @ 20 mins each) with my PP over the past 1.5 years and I've had no issues with the brakes. The only downside is after a track day the pedal feel is a bit off till you scrub the streaks off the rotors.

Anyone that hasn't driven a PP would be surprised how much better the brakes are than a stock GTI. The stock GTI fronts are nearly the same size as the PP rear rotors.

I assume OP has already decided on a car but I know several instructors that have PP GTI and S3/Golf R for their instruction cars and they all drive C6 grand sports or C7s for their real track car.

I'm intrigued by the new differential VW is using in the PP cars, most professional reviews say it works very well. The brakes on the PP cars look like they are the same as R brakes?

Bostonaudi said:

I'm intrigued by the new differential VW is using in the PP cars, most professional reviews say it works very well. The brakes on the PP cars look like they are the same as R brakes?

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Yes - PP brakes are same as the R.
And a PP GTI is lighter, so they could perform slightly better. Less to stop.

You all have it wrong. It's not the diff or the brakes, it's actually the 10 extra horsepower that makes the PP cars so much faster on the track...

1Krautburner said:

You all have it wrong. It's not the diff or the brakes, it's actually the 10 extra horsepower that makes the PP cars so much faster on the track...

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o rly?

all wrong

it's the GTI badges on the calipers

... and the red GTI badges front and rear vs. the silver badges.

All kidding aside though, for $1500 extra, it's well worth it. I understand the other car suggestions as well, but it seems the OP will daily drive the car and honestly, the GTI is a great all-arounder. Comfortable, sporty, decent cargo space, great gas mileage (just avg. 41 mpg yesterday after a 158 mile trip), 5-passenger, great in snow (for those snowy locations), etc.

OP, I say do it.