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Old 04-20-2017, 09:23 PM   #1
howellinwolf
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Just went back to stock springs

And am so much happier. I think the car actually has a lot more mechanical grip on iffy roads running stock. Glorious not to worry about every road imperfection.

Was on H&R springs before, previous owner did not have camber plates so now the car can receive a proper alignment!


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Old 04-20-2017, 09:34 PM   #2
Gti jake
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That slight increase in camber doesn't have a negative effect on the car.

Glad you're happy with the results tho
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:41 PM   #3
crild
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Proper alignment? How so? The car should be running within oem spec unless some insane offset doesn't matter if on stock or aftermarket springs.

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Old 04-20-2017, 09:47 PM   #4
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From my understanding a reputable alignment shop that works with VWs and Audis should be able to correctly align the car within OEM spec even with lowering springs using the subframe itself (camber plates are only needed if you end up going REALLY low).

But, ride feel is different for everyone and what may seem stiff to one may be soft to another.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:26 PM   #5
howellinwolf
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You guys bring up good points. I believe there are also aftermarket wheel spacers (eyeballing is guess about a cm in width, and I'd like to get those off as well) that may be more of the culprit in this case.

It's been a bit tricky to guess at what previous owner did.

Regardless it is a lot more comfortable. Car feels a bit more springy and definitely not as weighted down but not in a confidence sapping sort of way.


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Old 04-20-2017, 10:54 PM   #6
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Spacers won't effect alignment at all.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:01 PM   #7
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Don't let this scare you away from all lowering springs out there. H&Rs are just known to be bouncy and harsh haha. Glad you're happy with your "new" car!

Across the board though, if you have bad roads lowering a car (and increasing spring rate) can be less than beneficial to handling. Stiffer can be better, but only if you've got the smooth roads to match, otherwise it's a compromise.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLoBaLReBeL View Post
From my understanding a reputable alignment shop that works with VWs and Audis should be able to correctly align the car within OEM spec even with lowering springs using the subframe itself (camber plates are only needed if you end up going REALLY low).

But, ride feel is different for everyone and what may seem stiff to one may be soft to another.
Moving the subframe side to side just takes camber from one side and adds to the other. If both sides are out of spec you need to lessen total camber, not shift it from side to side.

Most lowering springs won't leave you with insane camber but to clarify, moving the subframe only changes the L/R balance, not total camber (L+R)
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:45 AM   #9
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The problem is more in people keeping the factory shocks when going with springs. They might be OK for a while but after 10-15k or so the ride quality goes to shhhhh.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:48 AM   #10
howellinwolf
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I may consider a complete suspension kit someday in the future but I doubt it.

Even if I end up tracking the car it would take me some time to really learn to drive it at its limits stock. Might go for some better tires as many suggest.


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Old 04-21-2017, 12:47 PM   #11
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The problem is more in people keeping the factory shocks when going with springs. They might be OK for a while but after 10-15k or so the ride quality goes to shhhhh.
That depends on what springs you use. Average on the mk6 was 40k-50k before replacement.

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Old 04-21-2017, 02:09 PM   #12
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People don't give the stock suspension enough credit, it's actually pretty good. Handling isn't bad at all on it and unless you are spending over $2k you are really not improving its performance much.

Most of the just spring setups I see actually hurt the performance in return for looks.

I much rather have a stock height car than loose performance by lowering it
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1 View Post
Moving the subframe side to side just takes camber from one side and adds to the other. If both sides are out of spec you need to lessen total camber, not shift it from side to side.

Most lowering springs won't leave you with insane camber but to clarify, moving the subframe only changes the L/R balance, not total camber (L+R)
Now I'm a little worried because the HPA SHS coilovers I got do not have any camber plates on them. I was told that an experienced alignment shop should have no problem dialing in the camber back to OEM spec (or at least close to it, with a little extra negative camber in there for handling)?!?! I am planning on lowering my car about .5 - 1.0 inch lower than the VWR springs would have done, and wanted a spring&shock combo to save myself from the stock shocks giving up after putting on lowering springs (read about this on many posts).

Is there something else I have to purchase now?!?!
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLoBaLReBeL View Post
Now I'm a little worried because the HPA SHS coilovers I got do not have any camber plates on them. I was told that an experienced alignment shop should have no problem dialing in the camber back to OEM spec (or at least close to it, with a little extra negative camber in there for handling)?!?! I am planning on lowering my car about .5 - 1.0 inch lower than the VWR springs would have done, and wanted a spring&shock combo to save myself from the stock shocks giving up after putting on lowering springs (read about this on many posts).

Is there something else I have to purchase now?!?!
I'm running Bilstein PSS at about 1.25" lower than stock and was able to get the camber within spec. You just have to find a decent shop. Some places only know about shifting the subframe.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:21 PM   #15
rip steakface
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That depends on what springs you use. Average on the mk6 was 40k-50k before replacement.

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this. i had eibach pro-kit springs (stock shocks) on both a mk5 and mk6 and had 50k+ on both with no issues. put the mk6 back on stock springs when i sold it and there was no difference in ride quality. granted the pro-kits are one of the more mild drops.

that being said my 15 GTI is staying on the stock suspension. i like it...
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:42 PM   #16
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GLoBaLReBeL, any good alignment shop will set f+r toe and REAR camber back to stock.
They are not able to 'set front camber back to stock' for two reasons:

- there's no camber adjustment (worth speaking of) possible on front
- there's no need to adjust camber, as front camber does not increase with lowering that much ...

... as it does on rear.

Don't worry about front camber. It's uncertain enough if the actual shop is getting rear
camber and toe in right. Many shops are too lazy even touching the rear at all. Some
don't even know that the Mk.VII rear axle is fully adjustable, some settle for values 'still
within factory spec', when all values 'are green', even if they're still far from being ideal.

I'd highly (and repeatedly) recommend retaining factory toe in settings and setting rear
camber to -130' (-1.5), which is on the lower side of the factory recommended range.
Yes, it's a range. To be more precise the nominal value is -145' (-1.75 as laymans say)
but allowing between -115' and -215' (-1.25 and -2.25). Therefore -215' (which is
what you may get after lowering) is still within factory spec and your alignment shop is
not seeing any reason to adjust this increased rear camber back to stock. The point is
though, it'll still cause some increase in tire wear.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:45 PM   #17
flipflp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLoBaLReBeL View Post
Now I'm a little worried because the HPA SHS coilovers I got do not have any camber plates on them. I was told that an experienced alignment shop should have no problem dialing in the camber back to OEM spec (or at least close to it, with a little extra negative camber in there for handling)?!?! I am planning on lowering my car about .5 - 1.0 inch lower than the VWR springs would have done, and wanted a spring&shock combo to save myself from the stock shocks giving up after putting on lowering springs (read about this on many posts).

Is there something else I have to purchase now?!?!
You're fine. The natural camber curve of the car from suspension compressing (or from lowering the ride height) is not drastic, and even cars lowered much more than what you're talking about can stay within factory allowed camber specs. Front camber is just not adjustable without camber plates, but that's not a requirement at all. Typically camber plates are purchased to INCREASE negative camber to improve handling, not to decrease it.
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