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Old 08-12-2017, 02:02 AM   #1
KASPER
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30psi R's running around?

Anybody else running their R that high here? I was at 29 on a UM tuned R but was just at my tuners, lowering LC boost from 9-10 to 6, and we then bumped boost up from 29 to 30.

Just curious if anybody else has done the same yet, especially if you are UM tuned, just curious, it's only spiking that high but I'm sure that's obvious to most of ya.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:39 PM   #2
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I run 29 on gtx3071
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:13 PM   #3
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Wow 140 views 1 comment. Guess I have my answer lol

Guess all the (stock turbo) UM tuned guys are on vwvortex.

Limited, how do u like that gtx3071??? You do any fueling upgrades?
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:15 PM   #4
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i looked because i thought you were asking about running with low tire pressure
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:49 PM   #5
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I don't know where my Stage 2 ED tune peaks but I'm sure its not 30psi. I think it would be outside of its efficiency map for much of the rpm range.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:39 AM   #6
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My understanding, according to UM, seeing as it's only peaking that high, during very early midrange, that it is right at the limits of efficiency but then it bleeds off anyway, like all the tunes do to redline. As the UM cable has just begun becoming available allowing minor adjustments fro home, I was mainly wondering if any other UM customers running their hotter files, which were 28-29psi to begin with (once called their Red file) had bumped theirs up to 30, assuming they already had their newest adjustable file flashed in already.

On the other forum, some others have and have had it done at UM's home shop and had the ability to speak directly with the tuner(s) and felt comfortable enough with their explanation of why 30 was ok now when before 29 was considered the limit.

I've got 2 that are/were flashed with their most aggressive files 29 peak, and bumped the 17, which is more modded up to 30 peak from 29. Have never had an issue on neither running at 29 peak psi, so mainly was just curious if anyone else on this forum has done it also.

But this forum doesn't seem to have many UM tuned R's as the other forums, maybe this forums just a little more conservative lol
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcubed View Post
i looked because i thought you were asking about running with low tire pressure
Oh and lol bud, suppose I could have said boost instead of psi in title
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KASPER View Post
Wow 140 views 1 comment. Guess I have my answer lol

Guess all the (stock turbo) UM tuned guys are on vwvortex.

Limited, how do u like that gtx3071??? You do any fueling upgrades?
Yes apr fueling kit with walbro 450 (apr have 305)
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:04 PM   #9
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On the IS38 I was spiking 35psi and falling back to 27 at redline on a custom eurodyne file. Turbo lasted about a month at the level lol.
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:42 PM   #10
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On the IS38 I was spiking 35psi and falling back to 27 at redline on a custom eurodyne file. Turbo lasted about a month at the level lol.
LoL, fair enough, I won't push her that far then

As I stated before, was really just curious, if other UM customers went up the 1psi or had reasons/info, why to do it, or why not to. I figure 29 spike or 30 spike can't be making that big a difference. All I mean is if she's gonna let go at 30 she'd have let go at 29 also. Guess time will tell, they've been awesome at 29 for 8 months and over a year, respectively.

Just surprised so few UM customers on this forum compared to others forums, but lots of options/competition out there, usually means great things for us all in the end.

Thanks all
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:45 PM   #11
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The tuning company means nothing, but your right, 28+ your on borrowed time.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:02 PM   #12
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I'm stock turbo with a UM tune, honestly don't know what it got set to though, got it flashed and new clutch put in ~3 weeks ago. I'll be going back for a reflash once they release Launch Control and No Lift Shift for the 6mt, I'll see what the shop says about boost levels when I do that.
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Old 08-14-2017, 10:32 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 613B6 View Post
The tuning company means nothing, but your right, 28+ your on borrowed time.
Well I'd respectfully disagree, I think the tuner is everything imo

And I guess that's what I'm getting at, it seems that the old rule of thumb was exactly that, don't push the is38 over 27, but it seems that, that opinion is changing lately where some tuners have been pushing them harder, really just in the midrange, without catastrophic results. I've just been reading about it allot lately, just figured maybe someone here had more info also. As I've stated before I've got 2 running around at 29 psi since new, one for over a year, the other 8 months, now that one spiking at 30 for one weekend lol

Anyway, appreciate the input/opinions, as always be prepared to pay to play and knock on wood
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by KASPER View Post
Well I'd respectfully disagree, I think the tuner is everything imo

And I guess that's what I'm getting at, it seems that the old rule of thumb was exactly that, don't push the is38 over 27, but it seems that, that opinion is changing lately where some tuners have been pushing them harder, really just in the midrange, without catastrophic results. I've just been reading about it allot lately, just figured maybe someone here had more info also. As I've stated before I've got 2 running around at 29 psi since new, one for over a year, the other 8 months, now that one spiking at 30 for one weekend lol

Anyway, appreciate the input/opinions, as always be prepared to pay to play and knock on wood
More boost equals increased turbine speed, which can cause failures. No way to argue that.

Not only would you only see 30psi for a blink of an eye RIGHT in the middle of the surge zone, but you are definitely risking a lot for a turbo to blow flaming hot air because it's out of it's efficiency range. Bringing on boost that fast in the lower RPMs to see 30 psi can cause hard torque spikes...which is what bends rods. That's why most tuners have a more progressive boost request in that range (3-4k). It's not worth the risk.

Also peak boost pressure does not equal more peak power, we really need to dispel that myth. Boost pressure can vary by altitude, outside temp, etc. Tunes look to meet "torque requests" which can be met with lower boost and increased timing, so in many cases better, safer power is found by running race gas or ethanol blends. Additionally with smaller turbos (yes, the IS38 is small) they can't hold peak boost to redline, and you can actually end up with LESS peak HP if you force the turbo out of it's efficiency range earlier in the RPM range. More heat created, less power overall. That's not a good tuning method.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:01 AM   #15
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More boost equals increased turbine speed, which can cause failures. No way to argue that.

Not only would you only see 30psi for a blink of an eye RIGHT in the middle of the surge zone, but you are definitely risking a lot for a turbo to blow flaming hot air because it's out of it's efficiency range. Bringing on boost that fast in the lower RPMs to see 30 psi can cause hard torque spikes...which is what bends rods. That's why most tuners have a more progressive boost request in that range (3-4k). It's not worth the risk.

Also peak boost pressure does not equal more peak power, we really need to dispel that myth. Boost pressure can vary by altitude, outside temp, etc. Tunes look to meet "torque requests" which can be met with lower boost and increased timing, so in many cases better, safer power is found by running race gas or ethanol blends. Additionally with smaller turbos (yes, the IS38 is small) they can't hold peak boost to redline, and you can actually end up with LESS peak HP if you force the turbo out of it's efficiency range earlier in the RPM range. More heat created, less power overall. That's not a good tuning method.

Listen, I get it, this is not my first rodeo. Have owned many forced induction cars in my life.

I'm mearly saying that it would seem as of late, some of those accepted thresholds are being challenged pushed with great results. My personal experience on this platform, 2 R's currently, hasn't spelled the doom an gloom that is perpetuated by many over the years. True tomorrow anything can happen, but so far on not 1 but 2 R's I haven't had a single issue and other brand tuned R customers have only been impressed/pissed, so I think UM knows how to tune these.

Once again, really, I appreciate the information and opinions even if I disagree with some of them. I think it's great that there are so many enthusiasts out there and awesome that there are so many options for us to choose from. It's great to discuss/argue with each other as generally, we are all looking to achieve similar goals.

My main point in starting this thread, was for those already running UM's aggressive tunes, probably set somewhere between 27-29 peak psi, depending when ya were tuned, if ya had bumped it to 30, as there are topics on it in UM threads on other forums, or if you'd bought the cable and adjusted your loaded adjustable file yourself after conversations with Fred etc

I understand that some have always thought that their aggressive files are to aggressive, I'm just not one of them. I have nothing but smiles and great things to say about them personally! But it has become apparent that they are not nearly as popular on this forum as they are on others, no biggie, this thread did teach me that
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Last edited by KASPER; 08-15-2017 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:27 PM   #16
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Listen, I get it, this is not my first rodeo. Have owned many forced induction cars in my life.

I'm mearly saying that it would seem as of late, some of those accepted thresholds are being challenged pushed with great results. My personal experience on this platform, 2 R's currently, hasn't spelled the doom an gloom that is perpetuated by many over the years. True tomorrow anything can happen, but so far on not 1 but 2 R's I haven't had a single issue and other brand tuned R customers have only been impressed/pissed, so I think UM knows how to tune these.

Once again, really, I appreciate the information and opinions even if I disagree with some of them. I think it's great that there are so many enthusiasts out there and awesome that there are so many options for us to choose from. It's great to discuss/argue with each other as generally, we are all looking to achieve similar goals.

My main point in starting this thread, was for those already running UM's aggressive tunes, probably set somewhere between 27-29 peak psi, depending when ya were tuned, if ya had bumped it to 30, as there are topics on it in UM threads on other forums, or if you'd bought the cable and adjusted your loaded adjustable file yourself after conversations with Fred etc

I understand that some have always thought that their aggressive files are to aggressive, I'm just not one of them. I have nothing but smiles and great things to say about them personally! But it has become apparent that they are not nearly as popular on this forum as they are on others, no biggie, this thread did teach me that
I'm not looking to argue any points because it's clear you've got it figured out for you, but my point is pushing the turbo like this, 30 psi being just a number, has risks. I'm trying to give you a more realistic perspective that there might not be a second free lunch and you could actually be hurting your overall performance to see 30 psi on a gauge.

It's not about what is "too aggressive" or not, it's about what makes sense and unless you've done some actual dyno tuning back to back my hypothesis is that you're seeing very little gain by pushing peak boost to 30 psi. You've created more heat, increased load on the turbo (accepted thresholds be dammed), and might have nothing beneficial to show for that. More risk than reward. But that's not what you want to hear.

Now if you've got back to back dynos showing that this has a real overall benefit, post it up! I'm not saying I know I'm right, or that running 30 psi on your UM tune is absolutely bad, but I do know that when you're dealing with a static turbo compressor map and you're actively pushing the turbo outside of it's efficiency range, you're going to have a bad time.

Also the thread title didn't really direct UM tuned Golf R owners to discuss why they have their tunes set at a certain PSI, and I don't really see the point of actively limiting the discussion to that tuner and being disappointed in the forum when you don't get an echo chamber from it.

Anyway, hopefully some like minded chap hops in and shares his experiences like on the other forums.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:18 PM   #17
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No bud, not arguing at least not meaning to come off negative or confrontational with ya. It's like you said, it's such a short spike anyway, you'd really never see it anyway using LC, for as UM's launches are 4500, 4000, and a "soft launch" pick whatever's boost you want to leave on, and staying wot as I'm always way above that rpm to boost correlation anyway. You'd only see the spike flooring it from a dead stop off idle for a blink of an eye. I concur with what you're saying if it were holding boost that high, personally don't think the quick spike is long enough to generate the heat long enough to be detrimental at least in terms of heat.

Was mearly curious if those already spiking at 28-29 bumped to 30 and I did reference UM tune in the first post and every post since. And no I haven't had it on the dyno but it has outrun apr ho tunes on the street, so in MY experience UM's tuning, at least their aggressive tune vs apr's aggresive tune has not disappointed me. I'll get it to my buddy's dyno, it's just the busy season and paying customers take priority.

And I wasn't trying to come off as a know it all, I'm not and I'm new to VW and turbo 4s honestly, was just trying to let ya know that it's not my first modified forced induction car. I had a syclone, Sti, ecoboost sho, supercharged mustangs these R's along with numerous na v8's and nitrous cars. Just didn't want you to think you were talking to a newb, that's all, you're not arguing with a stupid kid who doesn't know any better and is always right lol. You're arguing with a not quite as stupid old man who's been around the block a few times

Anyway I welcome the discussion/argument/difference of opinions as that's what these forums are all about. Like I said, generally all of us are trying to get to the same place, and information and experiences are valuable when researching options. I will freely admit that I'm one bad experience away from having a different opinion but so far so good, and mainly as I stated earlier, figure the difference from 29-30 spike is minimal. But I understand that you (and others) don't like the 29 spike either. I just assumed there were more guys on this forum UM tuned, in the same boat I'm in and that doesn't seem to be the case on this forum.
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