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Old Yesterday, 06:15 PM   #613
4MotionWagen
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Burger Tuning JB4 Golf 1.8TSI MQB specific information thread

I have seen higher as Twindad said, but only below 17 psi.

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Old Yesterday, 06:32 PM   #614
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Originally Posted by 4MotionWagen View Post
I have seen higher as Twindad said, but only below 17 psi. <=16.5psi and I have seen as high as 20* but rarely. Mostly 17* to 18*. At 17psi to 17.5psi I get as high as 15* if IAT's are cool enough. 18psi and up I see around 12.5*.
My bypass run at 12 looks pretty bad then. I'll let you know what George says.
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Old Yesterday, 07:11 PM   #615
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Burger Tuning JB4 Golf 1.8TSI MQB specific information thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ton View Post
My bypass run at 12 looks pretty bad then. I'll let you know what George says.


It does seem to go flat at the end of the run but I don't always get that high of advance either. As iat's go up timing goes down. I noticed that timing is also load dependent, more load less timing. For instance on a slight uphill grade my timing can peak 2* or 3* lower and on a slight downhill grade it will go up some. There are a lot of variables that affect timing. I wouldn't be alarmed by one log.


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Old Yesterday, 08:22 PM   #616
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Ign timing advance = higher cylinder pressure thus yields more power. When timing goes too high => kaboom cylinder head/ring. Too high boost => kaboom turbo, then might damage the engine still from the blew up pieces. When EGT goes too high => shits will melt. Personally won't shoot for high boost and high timing at the same time though.
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Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ton View Post
My bypass run at 12 looks pretty bad then. I'll let you know what George says.
I doubt there is a problem. So many variables at play (fuel type, AFR, iat, rpm, charge density etc.). It's all about the speed of the flame front and timing the ignition to make power on the downstroke. If it doesn't have to advance as much to ignite the mixture to hit the sweet spot (because the flame front is faster), then it doesn't matter. The IS20 is going to create a cooler more dense charge than the IS12 at the same PSI. The flame front will be faster with a denser charge (tighter packed fuel and oxygen molecules at an ideal AFR will burn faster), so the less advance will be needed to hit the ideal time to ignite. Just my 0.02.
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Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM   #618
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I agree with toledo, it's hard to say what is ideal with our timing. When I was logging APR stage 1 on map 4 before the turbo I would see my timing at the top end change as much as two degrees depending on the day, and that's all at the same location.

On another note, I finally took the plunge and filled up with 3 gallons of e85 from my nearest e85 gas station (30 minutes away...) and the only public e85 gas station in the entirety of San Francisco. Since the IS20 my timing has generally been hovering around 12-13, but this last log it got back up to 14 with no correction in ign2-5 and was a little higher at the low end too.

http://datazap.me/u/meltedsolid/log-...28&zoom=58-129

I'm working with George again right now and hope to have it all tuned in by my trip to the drag strip Wednesday.
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Old Yesterday, 11:37 PM   #619
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dunno if it was already posted but the 2015+ WRX guys have serious fuel pump issues with straight-E85. Using a 50-55 mix seems to be the best bet. Reason being, E85 has very little lubrication properties vs regular gasoline and the HPFP's fry themselves without that lubrication. If you plan on running 50-55 you should use some LucasOils ethanol additive to help lubricate your fuel pump. Some folks also report that Marvel Mystery Oil works but that sounds weird to me putting that in your gas tank. You only need a couple of cap fulls per tank so 1 bottle should be good for a few fill ups.
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Old Yesterday, 11:55 PM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gro Harlem View Post
dunno if it was already posted but the 2015+ WRX guys have serious fuel pump issues with straight-E85. Using a 50-55 mix seems to be the best bet. Reason being, E85 has very little lubrication properties vs regular gasoline and the HPFP's fry themselves without that lubrication. If you plan on running 50-55 you should use some LucasOils ethanol additive to help lubricate your fuel pump. Some folks also report that Marvel Mystery Oil works but that sounds weird to me putting that in your gas tank. You only need a couple of cap fulls per tank so 1 bottle should be good for a few fill ups.
Yeah, you definitely don't want to run straight E85. Can't do it without a tune anyhow. Many of us here are running 2-3 gallons per tank. I run 2 since 99% of 93 is already 10% ethanol. VW 2014's and above officially support E15 since the EPA was leaning toward mandating E15 like they currently do for E10.

More discussion going on here:
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14213
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Old Today, 12:02 AM   #621
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Originally Posted by MeltedSolid View Post
I agree with toledo, it's hard to say what is ideal with our timing. When I was logging APR stage 1 on map 4 before the turbo I would see my timing at the top end change as much as two degrees depending on the day, and that's all at the same location.

On another note, I finally took the plunge and filled up with 3 gallons of e85 from my nearest e85 gas station (30 minutes away...) and the only public e85 gas station in the entirety of San Francisco. Since the IS20 my timing has generally been hovering around 12-13, but this last log it got back up to 14 with no correction in ign2-5 and was a little higher at the low end too.

http://datazap.me/u/meltedsolid/log-...28&zoom=58-129

I'm working with George again right now and hope to have it all tuned in by my trip to the drag strip Wednesday.
Good news. Let us know what you find.
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Old Today, 12:09 AM   #622
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I did another map 4 log and saw only 11-12. After that I did another 24psi peak, 20 red line run and saw 12.5-13. So I get counterintuitive results.

I have a fresh 3 gallons of 85 mixed with 93
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Old Today, 01:36 AM   #623
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Here is a link to one of the other guys log with the high boost setting. This is similar to the hat Chris ran on the dyno. You can see a little above 6,000, his timing drops. The guy that ran this log dropped everything down 1 psi above 6,000 after we discussed this issue and he saw it advance further with no drop. I'll have to check with him again on how much more advance he got, but I think he saw 17 up top. He also changed his FOL to 70 after this and his trims came down, and I had him up his boost at 2,500 to 22
https://cdn.fbsbx.com/v/t59.2708-21/...=5925AC04&dl=1
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Old Today, 02:06 AM   #624
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Originally Posted by TwinDad View Post
Here is a link to one of the other guys log with the high boost setting. This is similar to the hat Chris ran on the dyno. You can see a little above 6,000, his timing drops. The guy that ran this log dropped everything down 1 psi above 6,000 after we discussed this issue and he saw it advance further with no drop. I'll have to check with him again on how much more advance he got, but I think he saw 17 up top. He also changed his FOL to 70 after this and his trims came down, and I had him up his boost at 2,500 to 22
https://cdn.fbsbx.com/v/t59.2708-21/...=5925AC04&dl=1
Thanks for sharing this. His afr looks smoother than mine. I wounder if my meth is messing with my afr. I'll do a log without tomorrow.
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Old Today, 01:38 PM   #625
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Here are some logs of cars that have been measured on the dyno to get a idea of the different timing charts.
IS20 on E85 mix: 270whp Mustang with around 340 torque.



IS20 on E85 mix: record run



Will get the dyno runs of this car to see which low boost setting he used for the 290whp.

On the VW JB4 I Avg is a internal figure and does not relate to timing so we only looking a Ign1 and keeping that curve healthy. The value will fluctuate based on IAT and if the "stock boost" the ECU is seeing is approaching the programmed torque limit. In some cases it will dip the Timing.
At high rpm the IS20 is still efficient at 18-20psi so you can off set timing for boost. Higher than this 1psi will give less power than a degree of timing.
Because the ECU is so advanced in terms of timing control we decided to intervene with its timing control. Once there are fuel upgrades available to supply higher E85 content (the rear low pressure fuel pump is the limiting factor) we will look at a add on to jack the timing up at high rpm.
These high numbers are obviously in the realm of the unknown in terms of reliability for the motor and transmission so we breaking new ground here.
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Old Today, 03:45 PM   #626
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George when is firmware going to update?

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Old Today, 04:23 PM   #627
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George when is firmware going to update?

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Not sure. At this point we still adding stuff and it looks like we can do the pedal input change similar to guys running Pedal modules.
There is no performance gain on the firmware update, just some things are being refined and adding some features.
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Old Today, 10:19 PM   #628
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I have a new update on my ethanol tuning. Because my "local" e85 station is 30 minutes one way from here I only plan to keep these map 6 settings for only this tank, so I gave George the permission to throw long term reliability out the window with it and I will go back to my old settings when this tank runs out. So far it's been amazing to see how much this little bit of ethanol can do! My most recent log is 25psi peak and 17-18 at 6000rpm, and with no downpipe! I'll be at the dragstrip either tomorrow or a week from tomorrow and am feeling hopeful about breaking the 1.8t record.

http://datazap.me/u/meltedsolid/log-...28&zoom=48-144
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Old Today, 10:51 PM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltedSolid View Post
I have a new update on my ethanol tuning. Because my "local" e85 station is 30 minutes one way from here I only plan to keep these map 6 settings for only this tank, so I gave George the permission to throw long term reliability out the window with it and I will go back to my old settings when this tank runs out. So far it's been amazing to see how much this little bit of ethanol can do! My most recent log is 25psi peak and 17-18 at 6000rpm, and with no downpipe! I'll be at the dragstrip either tomorrow or a week from tomorrow and am feeling hopeful about breaking the 1.8t record.

http://datazap.me/u/meltedsolid/log-...28&zoom=48-144
You can make it go higher apparently. I don't know if you want to (or should).....

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpo...postcount=2069
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