Check Engine Light / Misfires / Start Stop Errors at Random

Hi,
(I have posted this in the UK Forums on suggestion, previous thread here: http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40081)

I recently purchased a 2013 1.2 Mk7 Golf 105 PS with approx. 55k Miles on the clock. The car has full dealer service history.

In the 6 weeks of owning it I have experienced this strange issue:
On numerous cases when starting the car in the cold, the car would rev slightly higher at around 1300 RPM with a bit of vibration before settling down to 800ish RPM after about 30 Seconds.When starting it whilst warm it will pretty much settle immediately.
Other times it wouldnt do this at all, I just assumed this to be normal for these smaller engined cars.


However on three separate occasions it would rev at 1500-1800 RPM and the car would vibrate significantly and the check engine light would flash. However after 40 seconds it would be back to normal, the idle would settle and the check engine light would switch off. The car drives perfectly normal after, (but the stop start feature switches off for the next 3 Drive Cycles).

In the first two instances, I hooked up an OBD after a couple days, and it displayed no stored or pending codes. However I left the scanner in my vehicle and when it happened the third time, I plugged the scanner in and it read p0300 Random Misfires, p0302 Misfire Cylinder 2 and p0303 Misfire Cylinder 3 in the pending codes section.

(It appears to happen when I have run the car and let it sit and then drive it again after 2-5 Hours. Although I can not say this for sure as other times when I leave it for 2-5 Hours its perfectly fine. When its left longer than 5 Hours or less than an 1 Hour it doesnt appear to happen.)

Any ideas what could cause this? - My guess is spark plugs.
Also is the first case of high idle 1200 RPM then settling in fairly common?

Finally on a side note, Does anyone have the recommended service intervals for this variant golf which includes all the typical service items like air filters, spark plugs, oil, gear oil etc? Also does anyone have info for spark plug gap / torque settings for this engine?
My previous toyota had it in the manual: where it said stuff like Replace cabin filter every 2 years or 20k manuals etc, but I can't seem to find it in my VW manual!

I have had two or three separate instances of misfire, resulting in both check engine light and instantaneous rough running or loss of power. One time it was on startup and I had similar high tickover for a few seconds before it settled down.

Nothing conclusive came out of any of them, the car was in warranty and the dealer did nothing; and I have to say I think they are 99.9% likely to be caused by minor bugs in the ECU firmware which will never be fixed, rather than any components not working properly.

As for servicing, if they told you how to do it you might not want to pay them to do it so.....

...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG

Cheers, the ECU bugs do not inspire confidence but it is reassuring that I am not the only one out there with a similar problem!

In terms of servicing, I generally prefer to do the service myself and provide receipts when I sell the vehicle. However the lack of info in the manual makes this more difficult than it needs to be, even with respects to the recommended oil - all it says is the vag spec, no Weight, ACEA or API rating. (Concluded that 5w30 C3, VAG Spec is the one for it, might be useful to others).

I didn't want to take it to dealers as they'll likely say they can't replicate the fault and leave it at that!

Update:

Changed Plugs - Bosch Double Platinum and replaced the Air Filter a fortnight ago - so much for full dealer service history - both looked in need of replacement!

So far the misfire / CEL has not returned. On one instance it did rev high again (1200RPM) on start up but no vibrations and didn't trigger the CEL. It settled a lot faster too.

Currently the verdict is the ECU bugs you mention exist and are a trait of the mk7. In my instance the symptoms were amplified by worn spark plugs.

spark plugs are 4yrs 60,000km (40,000miles) on the MK7 golfs...

I have all the documentation for servicing etc...

Yeah I found out about the 40k change after phoning around - mentioned it in the other thread before it was suggested to post in the UK Forums instead. Thought I'd post an update in case others are having similar problems.

Bought the car used with full dealership service history - with receipts - and it was not done. Looks like only oil changes were done - Cabin Filter was done at some point - but I'd prefer if they hadn't as 2 out of the 3 clips have been snapped by them! This is why I prefer doing my own servicing!

On that point - Could you pm me the servicing documentation - or is it posted in a thread somewhere?

Cheers.

afropelican said:

On that point - Could you pm me the servicing documentation - or is it posted in a thread somewhere?

Cheers.

Click to expand...

I just posted it today in another section..

I have been re-writing the official VW service list from the books to modify for my records & shorter servicing

However this is the VW list as per VW books.
Please note that high dust level countries & low fuel grade countries have different schedules!!
Official Service Maintenance Schedule (06/2017 edition),
for all versions of VW Golf MK7 2013>
operating in low dust countries, on fuels compliant with EN 228 or EN 590.

This Service Date:____________ Mileage:____________ Car Reg.:__________

Oil Change Service.
Every 2yrs or 30,000km/20,000miles (Q16, flexible), or
Every 1yr or 10,000miles (Q17, fixed).
• Reducing agent (AdBlue®): replenish only if customer requests.
• If provided.
• Draining engine oil & renewing oil filter.
• Brake pads/linings: checking thickness & condition of brake discs, front & rear.
• Warning stickers: ensure that they are present.
• Applies only to high-voltage vehicles.
• Engine oil: replenish.
• Service interval display: reset.
• High-voltage battery: charging.
• Applies only to PHEV.

Inspection.
After 2yrs or 30,000km/20,000miles, then every 1yr or 30,000km/20,000miles (Q16,flexible), or Every 20,000miles or 2yrs (Q17, fixed).
• Horn: checking function.
• Charging cable: ensure cable is present & check its condition.
• Applies only to BEV.
• High-voltage battery: check charge level, charge as necessary.
• Applies only to BEV.
• Headlight washer system: checking function.
• Front Lighting: checking function.
• Static cornering light (cornering lighting): checking function.
• Automatic headlight control: checking function.
• Rear lighting: check function.
• Windscreen wash/wipe system: check function & spray jet settings & adjust if necessary; check for damage.
• Wiper blades: moving blades to service position & checking for damage; checking park position & adjust.
• High-voltage charging socket in radiator grille: visual check for soiling & damage.
• Applies only to PHEV.
• High-voltage charging socket in radiator grille & tank cap: inspect for soiling & damage.
• Applies only to BEV.
• Engine & components in engine compartment: inspect for leaks & damage (from below).
• Gearbox, final drive & drive shaft boots: visual check for leaks & damage.
• Removable original towing bracket: check
• If provided.
• Tyre pressure: check.
• Tyre mobility set: checking for damage & use.
• Tyres: checking condition & wear pattern of tyre, enter tread depth.
• Oil level: checking.
• Battery &, if fitted, second battery: checking with battery tester.
• Engine & components in engine compartment: inspect for leaks & damage (from above).
• Brake fluid level (dependent upon brake pad/lining wear): check.
• Cooling system: check frost protection & coolant level.
• Window wash/wipe system: check anti-freeze protection; replenish washer fluid.
• Hybrid components: visual check for damage to high-voltage components & wires.
• Applies only to HEV & PHEV.
• High-voltage components & high-voltage cables: visual check for damage & correct routing & securing of lines.
• Applies only to BEV.
• Headlight adjustment: checking & adjusting as necessary.
• Tyre Pressure Loss Indicator: calibrate after tyre pressure has been corrected.
• Carry out road test.

Extended Scope of Inspection (applies only in addition to regular inspection).
After 3yrs or 60,000km/40,000miles, then every 2yrs or 60,000km/40,000miles.
• Interior lights in headliner, luggage compartment, & glove compartment lights: checking function.
• Sliding/tilting sunroof: check function.
• Interior & exterior of body: visual check for corrosion.
• Windscreen: visual check for damage.
• Poly V-belt: checking condition.
• Swivel joints, axle mountings, couple rod bearings, & anti-roll bar rubber mounting: visual check for damage.
• Track rod ball joints: checking clearance, firm seating & boots.
• Brake system: inspect for leaks & damage.
• Exhaust system: visual check for leaks, firm seating & damage.
• Underbody: visual check for damage to undercoating, underbody covers, routing of lines, plugs.
• Front & rear coil springs & rubber buffers: visual check for damage.
• Sunroof: checking function, cleaning guide rails & lubricating with special grease.

Air Filter.
Every 6yrs or 90,000km/60,000miles.
• Air Filter: clean housing & renew filter element.

Dust & Pollen Filter.
Every 2yrs or 60,000km/40,000miles.
• Dust & Pollen Filter (cabin filter): renew.

Panoramic Sliding Sunroof.
• Panoramic sliding sunroof.
• With colourless special lubricant: In countries with low dust levels, only function & noise are checked.

After 3yrs or 60,000km/40,000miles, then every 2yrs or 60,000km/40,000miles.
• Panoramic sliding sunroof.
• If the lubricating paste is grey, the guide rails must be cleaned & greased & the wind deflector must be cleaned.

Toothed Belt.
Every 210,000km/130,000miles.
• Toothed belt & camshaft drive tensioning roller: renew
• Applies to all diesel engines with toothed belt.

Diesel Fuel Filter.
Every 90,000km/60,000miles.
• Diesel fuel filter: renew

Spark Plugs.
Every 4yrs or 60,000km/40,000miles.
• Spark Plugs: renew.

Brake Fluid.
After 3yrs, then every 2yr s regardless of mileage.
• Brake & Clutch System: change brake fluid.

Country-specific additional work dependant on time & mileage.
At every service.
• Reducing agent (AdBlue®/DEF): replenish.
• Only if requested by customer, & as a separate charge.

Every 60,000km/40,000miles.
• Dual clutch gearbox (DSG) 02E & 0D9: change gear oil & filter.
• Dual clutch gearboxes 0DD, 0DL, & 0BH: changing gear oil.

Every 120,000km/80,000miles.
• Dual clutch gearbox (DSG) 0GC: change gear oil.

At 180,000km/120,000miles, then every 30,000km/20,000miles.
• Diesel particulate filter: check.

At 210,000km/130,000miles, then every 30,000km/20,000miles.
• Petrol engine particulate filter: check.

Every 3yrs.
• All-wheel drive coupling: change oil.
• Front differential lock: change oil.


The next time these completed Service Items need to be carried out is at;

Miles:____________ or on this Date:____________


Work carried out by:___________________________

Thanks - Just what I was looking for!

Asked VW and my dealer for something similar on multiple instances and just get the generic minor service every year or 10k miles and a major every other year or 20k miles.

afropelican said:

Thanks - Just what I was looking for!

Asked VW and my dealer for something similar on multiple instances and just get the generic minor service every year or 10k miles and a major every other year or 20k miles.

Click to expand...

In the other thread you said you got VW books for the car which ones & shouldn't it have the maintenance bits in that?

I paid for the VW Erwin stuff...basically every book on the workshop side for any MK7 & MK7.5 Golf...& all the self study guides etc...

Isn't the Erwin Stuff limited access only (pay for hour, day etc)?
Only looked at the Transmission bit - for the gear oil - didn't realise they have maintenance intervals for everything included.

afropelican said:

Isn't the Erwin Stuff limited access only (pay for hour, day etc)?
Only looked at the Transmission bit - for the gear oil - didn't realise they have maintenance intervals for everything included.

Click to expand...

Yes it is....I bought 1 day as my internet is bad...& downloaded everything as PDF & nice & safe on my computer & I have a back up...

Good read here & i did the last posts..

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...ning-suggestion-Getting-the-most-out-of-erWin

That's a good shout - saves forking out to access the manuals every time.

Relevant extracts from previous thread, to keep in one place:
Mikeyd1:
I had similar thing happen once but my car was warm when it happened. I would clear codes see if they come back it could be dirty fuel and if they do come back get the plugs changed if it still does it change coils. But I do think these engine are sensitive at picking up codes
Afropelican:
Thanks for the response.
I only use BP / Shell but it could very well be a bad batch of fuel. Ill toss some redex in and add some more fuel to dilute the potentially bad fuel a bit and see how it goes. The only thing I've done out of using bp/shell regular is I tossed about £10 of premium in (as I had fuel vouchers) to 'clean the engine' in the last tank although doubt it had any effect positive or negative.
It doesn't sit as a stored code, it only remains as a pending code and then disappears all together from my simple OBD 2 scanner. Nevertheless, I have cleared it as suggested. OBD Eleven is on its way for some coding, that should help shed some more light (if the problem still persists by then). As I understand it can analyse more than a typical OBD and read stored codes other scanners can't.
Mikeyd1:
No clue about what spark plugs or gaps or torque setting but there should be a how to guide in one of the sub forums.u should also post in the UK bit. Your obdeleven will be better and will also read live data to see if your having any miss fires. Hopefully it was just crappy fuel. Funny enough when mine did it I used a tank of she'll v power

[FONT=&quot]Update:
Check Engine Light came back on briefly with same symptoms on start up as in the original post - although only Cylinder 3 Misfire P0303 this time.
This happened yesterday and today.
OBD ELEVEN doesn’t provide much additional info for this symptom - has been great for coding though!

I suspect it may be bad fuel but I can't guarantee this until I've switched fuel stations.
In the original instance (before spark plugs were changed) I suspected these misfires started when I put £10 of premium in from a different than usual fuel station (still a branded fuel station) although I could not confirm this 100% given the other variables in play.

I had to use this same fuel station again - I put £10 of regular in from this same suspect station 2 days ago as my local station is closed for renovations, and the misfires on start-up started again yesterday.

Additional info: I only ever use branded fuels from Shell/BP. When I changed the spark plugs (Bosch Platinum used) I gapped them, torqued to spec and used dielectric grease on the white ceramic portion of the plug. I did not remove the connectors from the coil packs. Three tanks of fuels ago I used redex. Two tanks ago I used Wynns Xtreme Cleaner.

Based on this I suspect it may be dodgy fuel, but I will switch the coil packs 1 with 2 and 3 with 4 to see if the misfires move over to cylinders 1/4 as it hasn't reported on these cylinders before when I get the chance. I will also switch to a different fuel station when this tank runs out.

Any additional suggestions are appreciated.

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fuel...I recon...& also be aware that the fuel filter is not mentioned in the servicing...

Reason is its for life & in the fuel delivery unit (in the tank) & not a separate part....so you have to replace the whole fuel delivery unit..