AR1 2016 Golf R

I've found it helpful to look at other folks journals as a reference for parts research so I'm contributing mine.

Suspension
Bilstein B16 PSS10 coilovers (dampers at 5/street 10/track, 13-5/8" ride height)
Ground control camber plates
Superpro 24mm rear sway bar (stiff setting)
Superpro 26mm front sway bar (stiff setting)
Super pro front control arm bushings (+0.5 caster version)

Wheels/tires
Stockers
Michellin PS4S 225/40r18
15mm spacers
Bolt conversion
(Previously) Neuspeed RSe10 18x9 +45
(Previously) Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R 245/40r18
(Previously) Neuspeed RSe10 18x8.5
(Previously) Michellin PSS 235/40r18

Brakes
Ferodo DS2500 front pads

Alignment
Front camber: -1.9*
Front caster: 8.1*
Toe: 0.0* all around
Rear camber: -2.0*

Relevant discussions
Front sway bar and control arm bushings
Camber plates

Endorsements
"This has less body roll than my car" -NSX owner and presumed liar

Ferodo DS2500 Install and initial impressions



I've just wrapped up my Ferodo DS2500 install wanted to share some thoughts. I decided to go with this pad as I plan to use it for daily driving and light track use. I've only done fronts so far as I don't have any e-tools for retracting the rear parking brake.

The pads:


As you can see, the contact patch is very different from stock. I think this might translate to increased braking force and potentially pedal feel (stiffer?). I've pictured the Ferodos next to my stock pads which have 6k and 4 track days on them. I forget the the numbers were but the Ferodos are 3mm thicker than the worn stock pads (not sure that they started at the same width though). Just FYI!

Install:
This is a super easy job and could easily be done in a parking lot before a track day. Aside from the usual jack and torque wrench for wheels you really only need a 13mm socket and a 17mm open ended wrench (or pliers). The tricky thing about the 17mm wrench is that it needs to be more narrow than a standard wrench due to clearance. Below I'm showing the nut that is held in place with the 17mm. As you can see on the caliper, there is just over 7mm of width available. I elected to buy a spare wrench and grind it down from ~9mm to 7mm using a bench grinder. If you don't have a bench grinder I'd recommend buying a narrow set of adjustable pliers (I hate using pliers).


Once you've got the calipers unbolted from the caliper carriers you'll probably need to depress the pistons to clear your replacement pads. I used a c-clamp and small piece of wood to spread the pressure on the caliper. I highly recommend this style of clamp:


You'll find a pad wear sensor on the inner pad of the passenger side caliper (US). I snipped the harness off, pulled the rubber boot off, stripped the wire and closed the circuit as so:


I then used some epoxy to keep the wire tucked away as it is pretty close to the caliper. I almost used some electricians tape and hot glue but realized that wouldn't stand up to track temperatures:



Impressions:
I've done a bit of a run-in but probably not as hard as I would like to. They don't feel amazingly more grippy (i.e. coefficient of friction) but, as with the stock pads as well, I have more brake than tire (got my stock wheels/tires on right now). I'll be able to test this better with my track set up in a couple weeks. Frankly, I'm less concerned with increasing the braking force than I am with delaying brake fade.

Edit: I'm going to have to amend my initial impressions. The braking force improvement is very pronounced when braking from highway speeds (60-70ish). I get the feeling that the improvements will be even more pronounced on the track.

What were the differences with the PSS vs the RE-71R?

R compound for sure, but want your take on the daily driving too, since PSS is very good on the street and can be used on the track.

How about going from 8.5 to 9?

Curious about track feel as well as DD with spirited cornering.

Cheers.

The RE-71R tires are so different from the PSS that it is pretty easy to chose between them as they really don't have much common ground aside from being the top performers in their respective classes. As you said, the PSS is a really good all around street tire that can be used at the track and the RE71 is a really awesome track tire that will survive a very limited use on the street.

So far I've only done a few hundred street miles and 2 track days (in damp conditions) on the RE71 so I haven't fully grasped their potential though I'm sure I will at my next dry track event. I would say that the difference between the PSS and the stock R tires (S004?) is pretty comparable to the difference between the PSS and RE71. You don't just get more grip with the RE71 but rather you get more everything. You'll get way more road noise (a factor which I would place 2nd to poor treadwear on the list of reasons not to daily drive this tire) and also more road harshness from the stiffness of the sidewalls. The stiffness of the sidewalls (in combination with the added stickiness) really make the car turn in much sharper. This is the characteristic I find most favorable about the tire. All of a sudden you can jab the front end around as if someone hooked up a winch to your toe hook at a 90 degree angle.

I think the bottom line in this comparison is simple -- the PSS is the clear winner for a tire that will be used on a daily driver and the RE71 is the performance monster that you can perhaps drive to and from the track but really don't want to use for a daily driver. If your R is a weekend car and you're OK with poor tire life I suppose you could consider using the RE71 on it full time but be prepared to stop in at the tire shop almost as often as you change your oil.

Another difference not commonly discussed is the shape of the shoulder. It is hard to describe the difference without both tires in front of me but it seems like the RE71 has more meat on the shoulder whereas the PSS kind of a has a sloped shoulder out of the factory. This isn't great because this platform tends to eat the outer shoulder of tires in absence of any camber/caster modifications. Here is a picture of my old PSS after a track weekend in my past mk7 GTI that illustrates the outer shoulder wear:

Part of the toxic recipe here was crappy driving on my part which I have continued to address however I also believe that the combination of hardware was problematic.

About the 8.5 to 9: I don't have a lot of comments really. I'm running different tires on the 9" wheel and therefore can't comment much on the changes that the wheel might bring about. It would be interesting to mount the same tire on both wheels and make observations but I never had that opportunity. I bumped up the 9" wheel in order to run bigger tires (245). While I could have run them on the 8.5" the bigger wheel puts more stretch on the sidewall which, from my understanding, improves steering responsiveness.

I will note that the RSe10/RE71 combo feels more sluggish around town as compared to stock than I ever recall the PSS setup feeling. There are many factors at play here. I think most significant is that the 245/40 has a larger diameter than 235/40 and therefore the effective gearing is different. Also, the tires are so much stickier that the steering feels much heavier when maneuvering around a parking lot. It could be that the weight of the extra half inch of wheel makes it harder to get the wheels rolling but I highly doubt that factor is significant in the scheme of all of the variables present.

Let me know if I missed anything.

Hey, for the superpro bushings, I see a 1 deg and 2 deg caster set on their site, but no .5 deg. In your other thread, I see you mentioned the ******78 which on their site seems to be the 2 degree caster?

Thanks for clarifying. =)

doublej said:

Hey, for the superpro bushings, I see a 1 deg and 2 deg caster set on their site, but no .5 deg. In your other thread, I see you mentioned the ******78 which on their site seems to be the 2 degree caster?

Thanks for clarifying. =)

Click to expand...

JJ, Superpro offers both bushings to be used with the stock control arm as well as complete control arm assemblies. The +1 and +2 degree units are the control arm assemblies whereas the bushing is the product that achieved the +0.5 degree caster (watch out, there is also a +0 caster model offered).

The part I used (+0.5 degrees) is SPF4178K.

http://www.superpro.com.au/find/sup...012-on-/productnr-SPF4178K/cid-999501495/vid-

AR1 said:

JJ, Superpro offers both bushings to be used with the stock control arm as well as complete control arm assemblies. The +1 and +2 degree units are the control arm assemblies whereas the bushing is the product that achieved the +0.5 degree caster (watch out, there is also a +0 caster model offered).

The part I used (+0.5 degrees) is SPF4178K.

http://www.superpro.com.au/find/sup...012-on-/productnr-SPF4178K/cid-999501495/vid-

Click to expand...

Ah, got it. It's much clearer after reading the fitment pdf. The description of the 4178 says up to 2 degrees so I thought it meant 2 degrees additional but looks like we end up with .5

JJ

On a side note, here are the different suspension configurations I have tested on my past GTI and current Golf R:

GTI
1. Stock
2. Springs
3. Springs and rear sway bar
4. Springs, rear sway bar, bilstein B8 and camber plates

Golf R
5. Stock
6. Camber plates and rear sway bar only (no springs or shocks)
7. Camber plates, rear sway bar and B16 PSS coilovers
8. Camber plates, front and rear sway bars, B16 PSS coilovers and FCA bushings (corner balanced)

Another one in the books



Did a 2 day event at Thunderhill this weekend and the car did great. Temps were in the low 70s and oil temps held around 235-245. I bumped up my damper settings to 10/10 after riding along in a GT4 and feeling a bit jealous. I smoked the brakes in one session but they held up pretty good otherwise. I'm planning to flush with RBF600 once my stainless lines show up. I'm feeling like I could make use of a few extra ponies but I'm certainly not feeling bored without them.

034 was out there doing tech inspection and also helping out around the paddock with folks that needed a hand (brake bleeds, etc) -- good dudes if you ask me.

Unfortunately I was having mega gopro issues (maybe card write speed related?). In my last session I managed to run 3 laps in the 2:16 range (best being 2:16.24). Last year at this event I did approximately 2:23 in my GTI w/ michellin PSS. I'm much more experienced this time around but the R is obviously way more capable as well.

There were a bunch of cool cars there but one of the most eye catching was one I saw on a trailer leaving from an earlier event

Hey, how did you find only changing the front pads? I have been trying to source a full set of DS2500 but only fronts seem to be available.

JJ

Very nice build so far!

How is it running 9+45 on 245 tires? Any rubbing issues?

We'll have to do a Thunderhill day.

doublej said:

Hey, how did you find only changing the front pads? I have been trying to source a full set of DS2500 but only fronts seem to be available.

JJ

Click to expand...

No adverse effects but I'm not super scientific about it -- maybe I'm over cooking my rears long before the fronts go. Whatever -- I'll put something better in after my upcoming track day. There are no immediately noticeable effects on of off track. The DS2500 is a pretty tame pad (more squeaking than avg Joe will tolerate but WAY less aggressive than a real dedicated track pad).

ATR said:

Very nice build so far!

Click to expand...

crild said:

How is it running 9+45 on 245 tires? Any rubbing issues?

Click to expand...

No rubbing but I've got camber on my side. Tire width also vary by brand/model. YMMV

Gawernator said:

We'll have to do a Thunderhill day.

Click to expand...

I do most of the audi club events. Will be at Sonoma next weekend. See you around.

AR1 said:

No adverse effects but I'm not super scientific about it -- maybe I'm over cooking my rears long before the fronts go. Whatever -- I'll put something better in after my upcoming track day. There are no immediately noticeable effects on of off track. The DS2500 is a pretty tame pad (more squeaking than avg Joe will tolerate but WAY less aggressive than a real dedicated track pad).







No rubbing but I've got camber on my side. Tire width also vary by brand/model. YMMV



I do most of the audi club events. Will be at Sonoma next weekend. See you around.

Click to expand...

How much camber you running?

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