GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Negative Camber up front. How much is needed

A3SBQ

Ready to race!
Location
Norway
Hi all.
Looking into getting more negative Camber on the front axel. Have read about possibly Clubsport S spindles (not confirmed as of yet how much it gives)

I am tracking the car 90% of my use.
So here is my question.
How much is enough negative Camber for the track?

My plan is to look into milling out a slotted hole pattern on the stock lower front arm making it possible to push out the lower front ball joint.
I was thinking of 5-10min movement from stock positioning.
Haven't checked for the actual possibility as of yet. A welded strengthening is maby needed.

What do you guys think?

I have also read about the ball joint from TTS mk3 is adjustable. Need to check if it's the joint it self that has the slotted bolt holes or the control arms. Off course I also need to check up with bolt patterns is the same as on the Golf.

Any feedback on this is highly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Location
St. Olaf
this ^^

I'm convinced we're able to help you, even though you'd find the most exact answer on the track.

If you track her to 90 % I'd make it 100 % since you no longer would need to have it street legal.

:D
 

A3SBQ

Ready to race!
Location
Norway
Thanks guys.
The car is still used for fast road weekend drives. So needs to be some what comfortable and street legal.
Track Tyre is mixed. Heve used 18" Yokohama A048 and Toyo R888R. (have an extra track wheel set)

Have looked into camber plates but don't want this because of noise on normal road use.
 

odessa.filez

Autocross Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
my experience with ground control street plates on a BMW was nvh: first off, they amplify road noise and bump nvh. second, they use an exposed bearing to allow the spring to turn and the bearing tended to attract dirt and worse in construction zones, which lead to more noise and bearing degradation.

the bmw ground control bushings tended to deform over time from top nut tension and miles.

I'm considering plates myself as our autox club allows up to -2.0 camber in stock. I am also concerned about nvh and I want my car to be fairly close to stock as a dd. Plates would help at events and would reduce tire wear.

I noticed recently that Vorshlag introduced plates for the mk7. They are the weapon of choice in the BMW world for quality and durability (I have no personal experience). I might go there, but think the first issue will always exist and if I do I'll be trying ways to reduce nvh with lower tire pressure or touring tires in the dd role.

Dinancars.com historically produced fixed camber plates for BMW e90 and older series that "added" -0.7 and users claimed "absolutely no nvh" (code for "I don't care"). It would be great if someone could engineer something like this for vw, and Dinan is branching into vw with a tune box and coilovers, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

odessa.filez

Autocross Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto

A3SBQ

Ready to race!
Location
Norway

jmason

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Frederick, MD
Member 2015WhiteGTI installed both. I don't recall him having any issues.
 

mamock116

Ready to race!
did they make a noticeable improvement in outside edge tire wear? Did you use them in competition?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I did a few track days and a couple of trips to the Tail of the Dragon on them. Turn in was much improved. As far as outside edge tire wear, it helped a little. I am rough on tires as I go into the corners too fast, im still learning.
 
Last edited:

jmason

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Frederick, MD
According to this article (http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1781/the-ultimate-guide-to-suspension-and-handling-part-five-adding-negative-camber.aspx), you need about -4 degrees or more negative camber. I'm not sure how you get there with our cars, not to mention the deleterious effects that much camber would have on tire wear. So once you get as much negative camber as you can, then you have to look at reducing roll. Then you're looking at roll center location, stiffer springs, and larger swaybars.
 
Location
St. Olaf
Track Tyre is mixed. Heve used 18" Yokohama A048 and Toyo R888R. (have an extra track wheel set)

Have looked into camber plates but don't want this because of noise on normal road use.
To finally answer your original question:
You want something between -2° and -2°30' (-2.5°) both front and rear.
The higher the grip level depending on tire and tarmac, the more camber,
because both resulting body roll and camber loss will increase with lateral
acceleration. Both body roll and (rubber) bushing deflection cause camber
loss. Softer bushings and more compliant suspension springs and anti-roll
bars, as a result, require some more camber compared to a more rigid/stiff
setup.
What does this mean? Hard to get away without camber plates. Without
doing some research I don't remember the exact values, but if I'm right
you'd hardly get much more than -1°30' with the Clubsport S swivels. No
doubt this is better than stock, but it's still not ideal for tracking on semi-
slick tires.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong on the CSS swivels please. Despite this
they're still a lovely option, since they don't do any harm, say, they don't
cause any increase in NVH.
On a side note: Did you already give either Michelin PS Cup or Cup 2 a try?
They're worth it and proper value. The Pirelli Trofeo R feels even better, it
is actually one of or even the quickest, but this comes at a too high price.

;)
 

odessa.filez

Autocross Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
I did a few track days and a trip to the Tail of the Dragon on them. Turn in was much improved. As far as outside edge tire wear, it helped a little. I am rough on tires as I go into the corners too fast, im still learning.
thank you!

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

rexneffect

Ready to race!
Have looked into camber plates but don't want this because of noise on normal road use.

Make up your mind, dude ;)
Is it 90% track?
Or a street car?
Camber plates FTW. If mostly track, probably easy to get to -2.5 deg. Zero or little toe would give little detriment or inner wear as long as you're wearing the outsides as you should be :)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

A3SBQ

Ready to race!
Location
Norway
Make up your mind, dude ;)
Is it 90% track?
Or a street car?
Camber plates FTW. If mostly track, probably easy to get to -2.5 deg. Zero or little toe would give little detriment or inner wear as long as you're wearing the outsides as you should be :)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Haha. I want both worlds :)
I am going for full SuperPro bushing and LCA and Clubsport S swivles.
Just waiting for SuperPro and H&R ARB front and back.
Install is in 14 days i hope.

Did a alignment yesterday. got -1 degree camber on stock suspension.
This is for my ref on before and after....:D
 
Top