Intro and questions from a VW noob

Hello all,

I have found myself unexpectedly switching alliances of several sorts when it comes to cars, all thanks to the unique charms of the Golf.

Intro/Background:

My first car was the original 2-seater Honda Insight manual transmission hybrid. I got it in 2001 and drove it until late 2016, when the third electric engine battery died.

This happened right before my partner and I made a cross-country move from Madison, Wisconsin, to Salt Lake City, Utah. I've been sharing his car (a Ford Fiesta ST) since December 2016 and have been able to go this long without buying one because I got a job that is walking distance from where we live.

The Car Search Begins:

Finally ready to buy a new car, I immediately started looking at hybrids. I was confident I'd either be buying a hybrid or a Honda.

Out of what I test drove, I really liked the Kia Niro, but it was just too far beyond the price point I was comfortable with, especially considering that the way they packaged their tech features meant I'd have to pay even more just to get cruise control and blind spot detection, two options I really wanted. I liked the car a lot, and still do, but it doesn't feel like a $26,000 car to me, much less a $28,000 car. Plus I didn't want to be a guinea pig for a brand new model that probably has some kinks to iron out.

I figured a Honda Fit would be a safe move, and was almost sold on getting one, especially since I had read that Honda had just started putting their "Honda Sensing" features in manual transmission cars. I figured even if it was the "budget option," it still had fun/cool features and would retain its value if I wanted a different car a few years down the road.

I was honestly a bit let down with how sluggish it was in the test drive, however, and the dealbreaker was finding out that, at least for now, I could either choose Honda Sensing features or a manual transmission; I couldn't get both. I was willing to part with the manual transmission for the sake of a smart hybrid with some pep to it (like the Niro), but not on the Fit.

In frustration, I asked, "Is there any car manufacturer that puts safety tech in manual transmission cars?" And lo and behold, that led me to the VW Golf. I was thrilled with the options on the manual Wolfsburg Edition for 2017. It had everything on my "Most Wanted" list (Apple CarPlay/Android Auto; blind spot detection; and cruise control) in a manual transmission, as well as a much nicer interior than the other cars I'd tested.

The Match Is Made:

And oh man. What a pleasure to drive. I took to that stick shift like it was second nature (I had surprisingly struggled a little with the Fit shifter, which I had expected to feel more or less like the Insight's and be easy to throw). I loved that unlike with my partner's Fiesta ST, I could hang out in each gear a little longer. It had a smooth ride and just enough power to not imagine it struggling up mountain grades like I'd imagined the Fit would. It just felt good to be in. Like a lot of reviewers of the car have commented, it feels like a luxury-level car for a budget price. I knew immediately that I did not need to look elsewhere.

The Questions Begin:

1. The near-universal reaction I got from people when I told them I was thinking of buying a VW was, "But aren't they unreliable cars?" The results of my research on this subject were mixed. So I ask: How long should I expect to drive this car before I start having issues? How good is the 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty and the 6-year drivetrain warranty beyond that? Should I expect to drive this car for ten years or to want to be replacing it in three to five?

2. In relation to the above, would it be worth it to wait until the next model year, when the "VW People's Warranty" comes into effect, doubling the span of the bumper-to-bumper warranty?

3. If I did wait for the 2018 model year, what should I expect about my options and their price points? I see that the Golf is going back to the S/SE/SEL options, rather than the S and the Wolfsburg. I would imagine the SE is the closest equivalent to the Wolfsburg. Will some of the Wolfsburg features get split off to the higher trim level? Will the SE itself be more expensive (not counting year-end/late-model deals)? If it ends up being less of a good deal money-wise, would there be another good reason to hold off? I've seen the slight physical updates and actually slightly prefer the current look.

It also seems like the consensus was that what allowed all those options to be so affordable was VW's choice to offer only two trim levels for 2017. Is the Golf Wolfsburg truly an unusually good deal? Or will I be disappointed to find that the 2018 SE has all the stuff I like, at a similar price point, with maybe even more cool features (larger touchscreen, more safety features available for manual, etc)? Or will it be more like with the Niro, where I can get a lot of what I want with the middle option, except this one thing, which requires me spending $26,000+?

4. I'm really torn over the beige vs. black interior option. I only have sat in one with a black interior, and liked it well enough, but know that the lighter option is likely to be more comfortable in the hotter months. Is it hard to keep clean, though? Should I get the leatherette treated right away? And aesthetically, what do people tend to prefer? My first impression is that the beige makes the car feel airy and more spacious and the black makes the car feel more elegant and cozy.

5. Not that I have any other option (at least not this model year, and probably not next year, either, given I can't afford a $28,000+ car), but how good is the default sound system? Do people tend to just keep the basic audio, or do many Golf fans upgrade on their own?

6. How much shenanigans come standard with VW dealers? The dealer I went to in Salt Lake seems to have a lot of b.s. going on. They try to get you in by offering a "lifetime warranty" that sounds great, but that I don't trust, and their fees seem inflated. The doc fee is $399 and the thing that bugs me most is that they require you to pay $486 for "collision protection," which is basically an LED light they install in your central brake light so it flashes a few times when you first brake. I really don't want it at all; even if I had to eat the fee, I'd rather pay not to have that in there. But then it looks like there are many other dealers who do this, too. The nearest dealer with more than one manual Golf on the lot, in Denver, notes on their site that they do the same thing.

I am willing to accept buying an already-modified-in-a-way-I-don't-want car, in the same way I am willing to accept buying a car with a sunroof when I don't really want one, because everything else is so good about what I'm getting for price. The dealer's inflated fees are a minor detail in relation to the $3500 discount off of MSRP I can get if I finance through them (the dealer rates are inflated, but even so, the discount is so great I would still be paying a lower total cost than I would to take the other option of $1000 off and 0% APR).

Is this sort of thing standard? Is the deal worth the unwanted mod? What are my chances of getting a good deal if I go to another dealer that doesn't have any manual Golfs on the lot? How long do I have to go from dealer to dealer before they stop offering the 2017 models? I've noticed that stocks of manual Golf Wolfsburg editions are fairly low across the country. However, you can still order/build one on the VW site. When do you think the site will be updated to allow only orders of the 2018 model?

I know I've asked a ton of questions. Answers or ideas for any of the above are much appreciated!

We had a 2016 Fit LX, it was a turd. We now have a 2017 Wolfsburg w/automatic and absolutely love it. We insure it through Geico and have their Mechanical Breakdown Insurance (MBI), good for 7 years or 100k miles, costs about $55 per year. We paid a little over $20K OTD for the car, deals are out there.

There is no Wolfsburg model for 2018 (not yet anyway), you’d need to get an SE for comparable features. I think you’d pay a lot more for a 2018 SE than a 2017 Wolfsburg.

Oh, and we have the beige interior and it is gorgeous!

1. No one really knows the long term reliability of the car, it's only been out for 4 years in Europe. Right now there hasn't been any major issues found, except freak failures and lemon cars. There's some recalls on the sunroof and fuel pump on earlier models but that's it so far I believe.

2. Longer warranty is always great! Especially if you plan on keeping the car for a while and mostly stock (no ecu flash etc)

3. http://newsroom.vw.com/magazine/the-2018-golf-family-is-on-its-way/?eid=vwl.full.1017.a3

4. Sorry no idea, I've always had cloth seats

5. Not sure what the Golf audio system is but I have the default audio system in the GTI which is pretty good. Well, good enough for me.

6. That $486 for collision protection aka 'third brake light flashes when you hit the brakes' thing is pretty ridiculous. For one, it's stupid expensive for what it is. And it's stupid annoying to drivers behind you.

As you said, this is a dealer thing and not VW themselves, so I would look for another dealer. Or if you get a really good deal and decide to purchase the car from them, say you'll only purchase the car if this feature isn't installed. Definitely do not pay anything for them to NOT install it.

Thank you both!

I especially appreciate the feedback about the "pulse light" system. It would be easy to address if it was just one random dealer that did this, but it seems to be a growing dealer fad, except where it is still illegal (i.e. in certain states outside of Utah).

I can probably push the issue hard enough to get the fee waived, but the thing is, I don't even want that light. It sounds annoying and tacky, the exact opposite of what I'm going for with the simple, elegant Golf.

I found another nearby dealer with one on the lot--they don't explicitly say they do this on their website like the first dealer does, but I found a random review online that mentioned that they also install this light system. It seems it became legal in Utah a couple of years ago to have a pulsing brake light so the dealers are going wild and installing it on every new car that comes onto their lot. The big dealer in Denver also does it and blasts it all over their website.

All the local dealers in SLC and surrounds get horrible reviews on Yelp and they all have some pretty scary ones if you scroll through Google or other review sources. I could possibly go as far as Denver for this car (I just found out SLC > Denver flights are very cheap), but they do the same crap there, so what's the point?

Very frustrating.

StephanieH said:

Thank you both!

I especially appreciate the feedback about the "pulse light" system. It would be easy to address if it was just one random dealer that did this, but it seems to be a growing dealer fad, except where it is still illegal (i.e. in certain states outside of Utah).

I can probably push the issue hard enough to get the fee waived, but the thing is, I don't even want that light. It sounds annoying and tacky, the exact opposite of what I'm going for with the simple, elegant Golf.

I found another nearby dealer with one on the lot--they don't explicitly say they do this on their website like the first dealer does, but I found a random review online that mentioned that they also install this light system. It seems it became legal in Utah a couple of years ago to have a pulsing brake light so the dealers are going wild and installing it on every new car that comes onto their lot. The big dealer in Denver also does it and blasts it all over their website.

All the local dealers in SLC and surrounds get horrible reviews on Yelp and they all have some pretty scary ones if you scroll through Google or other review sources. I could possibly go as far as Denver for this car (I just found out SLC > Denver flights are very cheap), but they do the same crap there, so what's the point?

Very frustrating.

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It might be legal, but is it required? Surely a local dealer will listen and not install the light if it means you're buying the car off their lot.

Definitely frustrating though...

It's not required but it seems to be a dealer collusion issue here - I called another dealership right before they closed and seemed to get some unusually candid answers before the guy realized he could try to start selling me a car. He basically admitted their advertised price was bs and reflected discounts I can't get and that they do the pulse light thing too. Basically, all local dealers do it. No way around it here.

My approach is going to be pushing hard for an even better deal. I still have some doubts about buying now vs waiting for 2018 and am going to use that to fuel my approach when I go in Monday. As I have no way of knowing how the pricing on the 2018 SE will compare to the 2017 Wolfsburg, the only way I can feel good about accepting a lesser warranty and a few upgrades I won't get (larger screen would be nice) is to push hard to lower the price. I might even decide to scrap it and wait until 2018 if I'm not getting anywhere. This particular car also seems like it's been sitting on the lot for a while.

MSRP on this manual Wolfsburg is 22,730. They are offering $3500 off plus financing through them (at a jacked up 5.6 apr) or $1000 off plus 0 apr. I did the math and even with 5.6 apr the first offer results in lower total cost than the 0 apr.. Plus the salesman himself said if it was him, he would take the 3500 off then refinance soon after. I can refinance through my CU at 2.6 right now.

I think I'll feel OK if I can get another $1000 knocked off for a total of $4500. I'd also really like to get that pulse fee waived because it's insulting. But $ is $ and if I can get another $1000-$1500 off I don't care where they say it comes from.

I bought my 2017 Wolfsburg last December. The MSRP was $23,400. I emailed a few dealers at once trying to negotiate the lowest price OTD without going into the dealership. The lowest offer I've received was $18,999 + TTL. I put the down payment over the phone and told them to start the paperwork. They gave me 5.49% for 72 months. In July I went to my local CU and refinanced at 3.49%. I make more than minimum monthly payment trying to pay it off sooner as I drive 30k miles per year and need it paid off asap in case I would need money for repairs. I also have Geico's mechanical coverage for 7 years or 100k miles which was much cheaper than any extended warranty they tried to get me to buy. Buying towards the year end will always get you a better deal especially if next model year is out. Good luck!

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We got about $4300 off our Wolfsburg automatic back in August, I don’t think $3500 off in late October is nearly good enough. So if you can get $4500 off with their financing, and you’re absolutely certain there’s no prepayment penalty so you can immediately refinance through your cu, I think you’d be doing well. I think you’ll love the car, our only minor beef is with the automatic, and you’re not getting that so you’ll be golden. Even though you don’t want a sunroof, you may find you like the glass roof even if you never open it.

I’d check the car’s VIN and build date, if it’s from 2016 you could use that as a bargaining chip (“this car is old, more likely to need service bulletin updates, etc.”).

Good luck with your shopping!

5k off before ttl is what i would take. accept their apr on that price and refi asap

I went in skeptical but am still baffled by the experience I just had. So I went in, pushing hard for more off than $3500, using every angle I had to work: the new models including the better warranty coming out so soon; the time the car has spent on the lot; the hit I'm taking on financing at twice what I could get from my credit union; my moral offense at having no option but to pay $500 for something I don't want (the pulse system). I thought I was getting somewhere - I got an initial agreement with the $3500 off plus waiving the $500 fee. I was willing to take it.

But then one thing after another gets backpedaled. After I flat-out told the salesman my credit score before, and he told me I'd have no trouble getting the best deals, he tries to tell me I only 'really' qualify for the next level APR down. I make it clear that the upfront deal I was supposed to get was only minimally passable, but somehow he keeps taking more off the table as we go on and acting as if it's still a good deal. I repeatedly keep pointing out that he's trying to sell me a 2017 model that's been sitting in the lot for almost the same total cost as the new models with improved tech and better warranty.

The final deal-breaker was that he forgot to tell me upfront that they couldn't give me the $3500 deal if I wanted to put down more than $3000 (I had wanted to put down a little more than twice that). And I have to wait six months to refinance or pay a $1500 fee. He was trying to convince me to just put $3000 down and pay down the rest of what I'd intended to pay when I refinanced. I told him at minimum that I needed to talk to my credit union to determine how that would work, but the more I think about it, the stranger it seems that basically, there was no incentive to get a year-end model off the lot to someone that wanted to put down a substantial amount.

Are all VW dealers this tied to profiting off of finance? I naively thought that having a good amount of money to put down would make me a more attractive customer, not someone they really don't want to sell to. I'm going to call another local dealership tomorrow but I'm wondering if this is just VW's angle as a brand right now.

StephanieH said:

Are all VW dealers this tied to profiting?

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Yes.

StephanieH said:

I naively thought that having a good amount of money to put down would make me a more attractive customer, not someone they really don't want to sell to. I'm going to call another local dealership tomorrow but I'm wondering if this is just VW's angle as a brand right now.

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This is where you need to learn the dealer system. Dealers love it when someone comes it without any money down because that means to things, most likely higher apr and because of that they will make money. They hate it when people come it with straight cash being able to buy a car outright. Any dealer in the world is gonna try and make money wherever they can.

No offence but it almost read as if you're stretching yourself super thin to be able to get a gti and if that's the case do not get a gti, get a golf or something else that you can afford.

She wants to get a GOLF not a GTI


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