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Intercooler performance

G

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
I don't think so Jake, as there doesn't seem to be any decent data showing changing any of the charge, boost, and throttle pipes have any real benefit to the vehicle at stock turbo (is20 and IS38) levels.

As far as I know, all these intercoolers mate up to the stock piping without issue.
 
GTI Jake

GTI Jake

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
greggles said:
I don't think so Jake, as there doesn't seem to be any decent data showing changing any of the charge, boost, and throttle pipes have any real benefit to the vehicle at stock turbo (is20 and IS38) levels.

As far as I know, all these intercoolers mate up to the stock piping without issue.
Click to expand...

I'm asking because I'm thinking about doing a diy intercooler, not hard pipes.

I've been looking into a Vibrant 550hp rated 30x9x3.25 with 2.5" charge pipe inlet/outlet. Including building piping just to mate up to the factory piping (this would be front mounted) I'd have $450 wrapped up in it. Just weighing my options, no way I'm paying $600+ for an IC

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com...r-2-5-Offset-In-Out-30OAL-x-9H-x-3-25D-550-HP

I'd be using 4 ply silicone couplings with proper T bolt clamps (not worm gear like everyone else) and polished mandrel bent 304L tubing (with bead rolled ends) back to the stock piping
 
G

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
The end tanks look a bit mid sized on that cooler. You might not have clearance. Most of the FMIC's have the inlet/exit closer to the bottom (And are smaller in size then the one you posted).

CTS is 24x8x2.75, Neuspeed FMIC IS38 is 26x6.5x3.

Those would probably be good starting points for dimensions you should be looking for.
http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/install/CTS MK7 GTI FMIC Install Instructions.pdf (step 9 shows a good shot of how the end tanks and inlet/outlets are positioned)

Don't forget that Burger motorsports is releasing a 500 dollar IC pretty soon (And will probably have a discount on initial purchase).

Keep us updated regardless. You've got your work cut out for you!
 
S

supesgolfr

Ready to race!
Location
The Net
AZ GTI said:
So I am really liking the logs with Unitronic and IS20, but if I upgrade to the IS38, the one log we have here looks pretty dismal for IS38 cars.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

This doesn't look dismal at all !! :

kornsined said:
Here is the Unitronic log I had from yesterday (that perry01 posted). A/C is on and this was after a few runs and some jb4 logging.
http://www.datazap.me/u/kornsined/ma...log=0&data=1-4

Then after IATs had settled in and about 6-7 WOT pulls. Again no a/c.
http://www.datazap.me/u/kornsined/may21map6run3?log=0&data=1-4


Mods: MK7 Golf R, DSG, Unitronic Intercooler, HPA Catted DP, JB4

Both days had the same ambient temp of 71f or 22 celcius.
Click to expand...
 
T

Ton

Go Kart Newbie
Location
U.S.
AZ GTI said:
So I am really liking the logs with Unitronic and IS20, but if I upgrade to the IS38, the one log we have here looks pretty dismal for IS38 cars.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The intercooler will do better with IS38

Is38 will put out cooler air than is20 at same psi. The next issue would be if the intercooler was a flow restriction compared to a better one. It's not, so your good.

Think about this, I'm going to make numbers up:

GTI with IS20 @ 24 psi puts out 285 degree air at the tubro outlet.

GTI with IS38 @ 24 psi puts out 230 degree air at the turbo outlet.

Which car needs a better intercooler more?
 
S

supesgolfr

Ready to race!
Location
The Net
Ton said:
The intercooler will do better with IS38

Is38 will put out cooler air than is20 at same psi. The next issue would be if the intercooler was a flow restriction compared to a better one. It's not, so your good.

Think about this, I'm going to make numbers up:

GTI with IS20 @ 24 psi puts out 285 degree air at the tubro outlet.

GTI with IS38 @ 24 psi puts out 230 degree air at the turbo outlet.

Which car needs a better intercooler more?
Click to expand...

Fascinating information!!! Thanks!
 
M

Mk7R Estate

Ready to race!
Location
Sweden
Ton said:
The intercooler will do better with IS38

Is38 will put out cooler air than is20 at same psi. The next issue would be if the intercooler was a flow restriction compared to a better one. It's not, so your good.

Think about this, I'm going to make numbers up:

GTI with IS20 @ 24 psi puts out 285 degree air at the tubro outlet.

GTI with IS38 @ 24 psi puts out 230 degree air at the turbo outlet.

Which car needs a better intercooler more?
Click to expand...

Really? Its the pressure that creates heat. 24 psi from both creates the same heat. But the 38 is bigger and creates more flow. That with the same pressure makes more power.
A bigger turbo at lower pressure feeds the engine the same amount of air as a smaller one at higher pressure. >But at a lower temp. Pressure creates heat.
 
T

TDI Matt

Ready to race!
Location
tucson
Ton said:
The intercooler will do better with IS38

Is38 will put out cooler air than is20 at same psi. The next issue would be if the intercooler was a flow restriction compared to a better one. It's not, so your good.

Think about this, I'm going to make numbers up:

GTI with IS20 @ 24 psi puts out 285 degree air at the tubro outlet.

GTI with IS38 @ 24 psi puts out 230 degree air at the turbo outlet.

Which car needs a better intercooler more?
Click to expand...

I did forget about this aspect, at or below the same psi it would be good to go I would think, small turbos get hot!
 
GTI Jake

GTI Jake

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
greggles said:
The end tanks look a bit mid sized on that cooler. You might not have clearance. Most of the FMIC's have the inlet/exit closer to the bottom (And are smaller in size then the one you posted).

CTS is 24x8x2.75, Neuspeed FMIC IS38 is 26x6.5x3.

Those would probably be good starting points for dimensions you should be looking for.
http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/install/CTS MK7 GTI FMIC Install Instructions.pdf (step 9 shows a good shot of how the end tanks and inlet/outlets are positioned)

Don't forget that Burger motorsports is releasing a 500 dollar IC pretty soon (And will probably have a discount on initial purchase).

Keep us updated regardless. You've got your work cut out for you!
Click to expand...

I figured worst case if clearance was gonna be an issue I'd cut the inlet & outlet off and have two aluminum v band flanges welded on, the build from there. If I'm gonna do one off might as well go bigger than what's currently available right? Also crossed my mind to use the next size down like a twintercooler...or the next size taller and build a new rebar with more clearance. Lots of potential for different options, I've gone down this road on a mk6 and my old Cummins. Both came out great so we'll see. Main issue is having time to do it
 
S

supesgolfr

Ready to race!
Location
The Net
AZ GTI said:
I would think it could do better than over 20 degrees above ambient. I'm picky because I am in the desert haha
Click to expand...

Yes, but my point in my previous post, is that Kornised got those numbers after a full day of driving and letting heat-soak set in. Other people did not mention that their testing was under the same conditions, so how can you say that the other logs were better?

Drrk's logs shows the IE IC 38 degrees above ambient! Does that mean IE is crap? No, because Drrk is testing under track conditions. Also keep in mind Drrk is running a GTI, and Kornised is running a Golf R.

See for yourself:

drrck said:
It was a hot one at the track yesterday and I have returned with data. Overall I'm very satisfied with my choice of intercooler. The car ran much more smoothly and I could feel the difference exiting corners with minimal heat soak.

Both runs are using ED 1.5 Adjustable (93 Oct/21 PSI) running E25.
Stock IC Run - Ambient Temp 77F
IE IC Run - Ambient Temp 80F

On the stock IC saw a max temp of 131 vs 118 for the IE IC. Even better is the average intake temps dropped from 118 to 105. Thanks to Track Addict I even have a map of intake temps overlaid on the track.

You can click on the image below to get a larger version. Hopefully this helps anyone debating the benefits

Click to expand...
 
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