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First drive review: Golf GTI MK7 (by Topcar)

gtiw7

Ready to race!
Location
cruising around
In general, this whole integrated manifold thing means: unlike what I've been planning for; I'm gunna keep the stock turbo forever :mad:.
It would cost a hell lot of money to port the manifold. I guess it's a kind of money that I would rather save it up to get MK8 GTI later on :D
 

FRVRNGN

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
California USA
IE: Refer to the latter portion of this thread:

http://golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36&page=2
I am sufficiently disappointed in US Mk7 GTI engine spec rumors (and performance pack "sometime in the lifecycle") that I am no longer anxiously anticipating this car.

My new obsession is the MQB 2015 A3 (Make mine 2.0T, Quattro, DSG) coming to US mid-year 2014. (Produced out of Gyor, Hungary. This plant also makes the fully featured Gen 3 EA888, so I'm hopeful US will receive the same EU 217-227hp/258tq engine spec complete with MPI and VVT)
 
Location
Pikeville, KY
Car(s)
Subaru
In general, this whole integrated manifold thing means: unlike what I've been planning for; I'm gunna keep the stock turbo forever :mad:.
It would cost a hell lot of money to port the manifold. I guess it's a kind of money that I would rather save it up to get MK8 GTI later on :D

the tsi lately doesnt really need a port job. i wouldnt worry about that. and the manifold may not be that bad. we will have to wait and see
 
Location
Pikeville, KY
Car(s)
Subaru
I am sufficiently disappointed in US Mk7 GTI engine spec rumors (and performance pack "sometime in the lifecycle") that I am no longer anxiously anticipating this car.

My new obsession is the MQB 2015 A3 (Make mine 2.0T, Quattro, DSG) coming to US mid-year 2014. (Produced out of Gyor, Hungary. This plant also makes the fully featured Gen 3 EA888, so I'm hopeful US will receive the same EU 217-227hp/258tq engine spec complete with MPI and VVT)

you might have a point. i dont really like the looks of the audi as much though. maybe the r will have the eu motor
 

grambles423

Automotive Engineer
Location
Alabama
Car(s)
2008 GTI
Cyl head and exh manifold are now a single piece.

We may be looking at custom exhaust outlet porting work for big turbo kits. Barring that, "big" turbos would be limited by stock outlet sizing.

In general, this integration leads to betterthermal control for more power and efficiency.

Integrated Manifold will not prevent any big turbo upgrades. In fact, it'll be cheaper due to less material needed to incorporate the turbine housing to an adapter.

In general, this whole integrated manifold thing means: unlike what I've been planning for; I'm gunna keep the stock turbo forever :mad:.
It would cost a hell lot of money to port the manifold. I guess it's a kind of money that I would rather save it up to get MK8 GTI later on :D

Refer above. Doesnt mean you need to keep stock turbo forever.

A common misconception that is widely speculated.

I am sufficiently disappointed in US Mk7 GTI engine spec rumors (and performance pack "sometime in the lifecycle") that I am no longer anxiously anticipating this car.

Agreed. Many rumors for North American application have me wonderign what the hell VWoA was thinking? I'm still awaiting press release of NA engine application, but so far what I'm hearing, is NOT what people are expecting. It will greatly disappoint if this speculation is true.

Even if it isnt true, we still know we're getting the short end of the stick due to MPI, VVT, Slide Pin Coolant pump, etc. etc.
 

grambles423

Automotive Engineer
Location
Alabama
Car(s)
2008 GTI
I'm really really afraid the GTI will be more of a Golf Trim level here in American, instead of an exclusive entity in the product line.
 

FRVRNGN

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
California USA
Agreed. Many rumors for North American application have me wonderign what the hell VWoA was thinking? I'm still awaiting press release of NA engine application, but so far what I'm hearing, is NOT what people are expecting. It will greatly disappoint if this speculation is true.

Even if it isnt true, we still know we're getting the short end of the stick due to MPI, VVT, Slide Pin Coolant pump, etc. etc.
As an example of your point, VWoA needed to make the Mk7 GTI a viable Ford Focus ST competitor (not to mention Mazdaspeed3). Even the EU-spec performance pack GTI was barely a viable competitor (since we overfocus on raw hp).

With a US spec GTI being LESS performance-oriented than even the barely competitive EU spec, VWoA will lose untold sales to Ford. (I can read the headlines now "Compared with Focus ST, GTI is not a true Hot Hatch")

Instead, Focus ST will once again be unfairly compared to Golf R, and Ford will win everytime due to cost comparisons.

Yes, exactly, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!?

FWIW, I'm no longer even cautiously optimistic, that Silao EA888 info you posted in the other thread makes any chance at a decently featured GTI engine remote at best.
 

grambles423

Automotive Engineer
Location
Alabama
Car(s)
2008 GTI
As an example of your point, VWoA needed to make the Mk7 GTI a viable Ford Focus ST competitor (not to mention Mazdaspeed3). Even the EU-spec performance pack GTI was barely a viable competitor (since we overfocus on raw hp).

With a US spec GTI being LESS performance-oriented than even the barely competitive EU spec, VWoA will lose untold sales to Ford. (I can read the headlines now "Compared with Focus ST, GTI is not a true Hot Hatch")

Instead, Focus ST will once again be unfairly compared to Golf R, and Ford will win everytime due to cost comparisons.

Yes, exactly, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!?

FWIW, I'm no longer even cautiously optimistic, that Silao EA888 info you posted in the other thread makes any chance at a decently featured GTI engine remote at best.

Well said.

I think you struck a good point, VW KNEW the competition was getting heated, but with the recent release of the ST mid to three-quarters of a way through development, I think they focused more on making it beat the Ford on the track just to have that "recognition". That's why it was easy for them to retune the ECU for added HP, and slapping the OEM 345mm Golf R brakes on the performance package and the LSD system. Not to say that wasn't their plan from the get go............but it seems like the two EU packages offered were an afterthought.

Obviously the ST wins the HP game, which, let's be honest, most boy racers look at when buying between most vehicles. They want those bragging rights because they'll never use the full systematic dynamics of the car in a track scenario. Even a Performance package GTI with 220hp will falter sales to the ST. (Ford definitely hit a homerun with that car...just not with styling :()

In the coming months we'll find out more about VWoA's plan, but again, if a certain rumor that I'm hearing is true (engine related)............the NA MK7 will be just another MK4 fiasco. GTI will equal a trim level instead of its own platform in the lineup.

I'm hoping VWoA surprises me.
 

FRVRNGN

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
California USA
GTI will equal a trim level instead of its own platform in the lineup.
Agree.

And if this is the case, and the base Mk7 Golf gets the very tunable 1.8T* as a 2.5L-replacement, I'll gladly give up the extra weight, complexity, IRS, and cost to build-my-own custom Golf GTI myself.

Base Golf: USD$18,000 (~2750 lbs, 1.8T, 5MT)
Lightweight Wheels + Tires: USD$1000**
Sport Springs and Shocks or coilovers: $1500**
Stage 2 (CAI, Tune, DP) to make ~250hp: USD$2500**

2015 Golf "stage 2" Power to weight ratio (250hp/2750lbs) = 0.0907
2015 GTI Power to weight ratio (220hp/2900lbs) = 0.0758
2013 Ford Focus ST (for reference) (252hp/3150lbs): 0.0800
(bigger number is better)

Golf stage 2 = ~$23,500
GTI stock = ~26,000
Focus ST - ~25,000

~$2,500 extra for a slower but "nicer" looking GTI, no thanks. (OK, maybe I want to upgrade the braking on the Golf Stage 2, and I spend another $1000-$1500. Still cheaper than the GTI (and I was being generaous with the 220hp, we're likely to get something more like 210 in the US)

Make mine a "Stage 2" Golf MK7 please :)


*News article on vortex a few months back about a possible Passat R-line with 250hp (tuned gen 3 1.8T EA888).

**Would have done this to the GTI anyway, so not really extra costs
 
Location
Pikeville, KY
Car(s)
Subaru
i like this thread. id like to see how strong that 1.8 is compared to the 2.0. the brakes are a non issue for me and the suspension would be replaced, but that 6mt and interior might sway me to the gti regardless.
 

grambles423

Automotive Engineer
Location
Alabama
Car(s)
2008 GTI
Agree.

And if this is the case, and the base Mk7 Golf gets the very tunable 1.8T* as a 2.5L-replacement, I'll gladly give up the extra weight, complexity, IRS, and cost to build-my-own custom Golf GTI myself.

Base Golf: USD$18,000 (~2750 lbs, 1.8T, 5MT)
Lightweight Wheels + Tires: USD$1000**
Sport Springs and Shocks or coilovers: $1500**
Stage 2 (CAI, Tune, DP) to make ~250hp: USD$2500**

2015 Golf "stage 2" Power to weight ratio (250hp/2750lbs) = 0.0907
2015 GTI Power to weight ratio (220hp/2900lbs) = 0.0758
2013 Ford Focus ST (for reference) (252hp/3150lbs): 0.0800
(bigger number is better)

Golf stage 2 = ~$23,500
GTI stock = ~26,000
Focus ST - ~25,000

~$2,500 extra for a slower but "nicer" looking GTI, no thanks. (OK, maybe I want to upgrade the braking on the Golf Stage 2, and I spend another $1000-$1500. Still cheaper than the GTI (and I was being generaous with the 220hp, we're likely to get something more like 210 in the US)

Make mine a "Stage 2" Golf MK7 please :)


*News article on vortex a few months back about a possible Passat R-line with 250hp (tuned gen 3 1.8T EA888).

**Would have done this to the GTI anyway, so not really extra costs

The numbers are hard to lie to. Even with the news of a GTI has not swayed my interest of a lower level Golf 1.8T fully decked out.

The Passat R-Line with the tuned 1.8T has me believing that VWoA is going to incorporate that into the new GTI and sort of bank the profit from not having to produce a 2.0L head at the Mexico plant. (Pure Speculation, but educated guess at best.) Would make sense honestly from a bean counter perspective.
 
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