golf alltrack tuning newbie thread

no personal experience but for those looking for a basic device there's also the dinan d440-0040a.

Less powerful with max boost at +4 but a total of 4 maps plus bluetooth map switching and boost monitoring built in, with an app, for no extra cost.

$299 new and sometimes discounted. Extreme Power is a sponsor here and carries it.

Personally I think I would pick it over Neuspeed.
https://www.dinancars.com/product/d...ance-tuner-for-vag-vga-18l-20l-turbo-engines/

another new Alltrack owner, and turbo newb, here. i'm leaning towards a jb4, mostly for the adaptability. but as is probably the case with most Alltrack owners, daily-driver reliability is also a priority. am i correct in my understanding that the jb4 allows for more safeguards than the average flash tune?

also, what are the pros and cons of a downpipe vs an is20? bang/buck? reliability? are they each ultimately doing the same thing in terms of allowing more flow through the turbo/exhaust?

i'm assuming there's a fairly direct relationship between more boost, more power, and reliability. but for a given power output, does the addition of components like intakes or intercoolers allow a greater margin for safe operation? i mean, it seems like you can achieve 280hp with or without an intercooler. is the only reason to install one to reach for 300hp?

see what happens when someone posts a newb thread?

ok, lemme try this another way. questions, questions . . .

when a tuned golf engine or turbo goes boom, why do they tend to fail? if i understand correctly, turbos fail because of turbine shaft bearings (oil starvation?), which sometimes can be related to heat soak-back (accumulation of heat after the engine is shut down). not sure what role blow off valves and wastegates play in mitigating failures.

engines fail due to detonation, oil starvation or, i imagine, greater loads being placed on components than they're properly rated for. octane and intercoolers can address detonation but when an engine blows up is that because it was tuned for 350hp and really isn't rated for running at 6k rpms for extended periods with that kind of output?

while i get the "pay to play" maxim, i'm having trouble finding any discussion of targeted tuning plans or designs that address anything other than the ways to make more power. what seems to be left out is how the various ways of making power stress or load particular components. with so many products and so many people out there modding this engine, i imagine there are some known points of failure that "pay to play" really doesn't answer.

also, i'm wondering about the usefulness of installing and tuning for larger turbos vs maximizing the output of the is12. if i have this right, you don't see the gains of the larger turbos until you're over 5k, whereas a smaller turbo is going to be more responsive off the bottom.

i get the pursuit of outright power and that's always going to be the topic that gets the most attention. and that's how most of the information is generated, by finding limits. but obviously peak hp isn't the only tuning objective.

As far as I'm aware there is only one example of a 1.8t EA888 going boom (and it was under special circumstances) and no examples of an IS12 going boom, so I don't think there's really a way of answering your questions. That is why there is almost no discussion on how to make sure that power is safe, because it seems that we have not yet found an unsafe power level despite our efforts. It helps a lot that our ECU is so smart. It is entirely closed loop, and so is able to dynamically adjust almost every parameter to suit the current conditions. This means that mods that might typically be regarded as increasing safety on other older turbo cars (such as an intercooler) just serve to increase power output on our cars. Overall it seems that you have a solid understanding of the trends and problems with 90's turbo cars, but not about modern turbo cars. You should be ready to forget everything you think you know and make sure to do a bunch of research on our engine before making any big decisions. I think you'll be happy with what you find.

Also, see the IS20 installation thread for why a turbo swap is worth it, the difference is there well before 5k rpm and it's effect is much more than a simple downpipe (and they are not ultimately doing the same thing). There's no way you're making any more than a peak of 260whp with an IS12 given even the most optimal combination of mods, fuel, etc., but with an IS20 you could make 290+whp pretty easily and it would be for a much wider range of RPM than the IS12. Finally, to address a question you mentioned in your first post: no, the JB4 does not have any more or less safeguards than the average flash tune or than stock, they all retain the same safeguards from the factory.

wow, i would have thought as much as people are pushing these engines there would be more failures out there. by "special circumstances" are you referring to operator error?

i get that the is20 provides more than a downpipe. i was just throwing things out there, but in general i don't really see why people go straight for the downpipe, except for sound. doesn't seem like a big return, but i suppose it's pretty accessible.

thanks for replying.

Horace said:

by "special circumstances" are you referring to operator error?

Click to expand...

Yup.

Horace said:

i get that the is20 provides more than a downpipe. i was just throwing things out there, but in general i don't really see why people go straight for the downpipe, except for sound. doesn't seem like a big return, but i suppose it's pretty accessible.

Click to expand...

It's mostly to do with area under the curve. The peak numbers only change by a bit, but if you look away from peak it's a big difference. I personally don't have a downpipe yet (I will be getting one soon), but from what I've heard it's a complete world of difference that you need to experience to fully comprehend. A downpipe is unquestionably the second best price to performance mod next to a turbo swap.

Horace said:

thanks for replying.

Click to expand...

I've got to find something to do at 6:00am. I really shouldn't still be awake... I didn't expect you to see it so quickly so there are a few edits to the post since you responded.

i've never modded a car, only motorcycles with bolt-ons. with motorcycles there's usually so much data from tuners and end-users that even with built motors, unless you're really pushing the envelope (like forced induction) you know what you're going to get and it's really hard to blow up an engine. fueling flashes tend to be more about shaping the curve and smoothing out rough spots.

but even with motorcycles there are those after outright power and those after "useable" power. in most cases peak isn't something you can take advantage of all the time. from what you're saying, while i'd written off the downpipe maybe i should look at it again.

Sorry to jump in but I had some questions as well.

I've just done APR STG 1 and I love it and it feels like the car should have come stock, and nothing mechanical has changed.

I'm planning to do an is38 swap within the next year and will start amassing parts for it.

It seems the APR STG2 with downpipe doesnt make significantly more peak power than the stg1 tune from looking at APR. looking at the dyno graphs now that im on my phone it just appears that the power comes on earlier and stays on. do people notice a huge difference with the downpipe?

stg2 (247/301)
stg1 (245/301)

is there any reason to get the APR pipe (like you get a free APR tune out of it) or should I go ahead and look for any other stainless pipe out there like the one posted earlier?

it looks like I'll need at least to upgrade the intercooler and DP for supporting the is38. stuck muffler would be kind of awesome...

If you're going to go IS38 don't bother with stage 2. From what I've heard there is a big difference, but you'd just be throwing away money if it's only so temporary. The $150 discount doesn't carry over to the turbo swap, and the APR downpipe is pretty expensive when not paired with APR's stage 2, so you should go with a different downpipe. I'm not sure which one is best, but there are plenty of options out there depending on what you want as far as resonator and cat.

I think I’d skip the IC upgrade unless I was going to spend time at the track.


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well, looking at everything, here's what I can see for Alltrack tuning options:

any Golf R downpipe:
our options that I know could work are:
APR downpipe $899
AWE Golf R Downpipe $$1,259.96 (resonated)
CTS Turbo downpipe $599.98 (with cat and CEL Eliminator)
42Draft Stainless with cat and resonator: $940.00
USP downpipe (catted) $624.99
AMS 3" downpipe $1,149.95



Turbo: huge range of prices on these depending on if you get new used balanced or modified turbine housing/hybrid turbo
is20
is30

Tuning:
JB4
APR Stage 2+ tune for bigger turbo
Unitronic (up to is20)

Transmission:
APR DSG Tune
Unitronic DSG Tune $650.00USD


Intercooler:
AMS FMIC $899.95
APR FMIC $899.99
Unitronic FMIC $699.99USD



maybe we can set up a database of available options on here for the Alltrack/GSW4MO people wanting to build up their car. Personally I missed my STi wagon (or even my old 02 WRX even more) and Subaru really dropped the ball with the new WRX. Lots of power, but sedan only and their reliability was pretty shaky at the beginning. I got the Alltrack because it reminded me of a nicer version of my old 02 WRX with similar power. APR stage 1 is how the car should have come stock, and it's been a great commuter and it kicks ass in the snow up here.

okay rant off. anyone wanna contribute to my lil text database up there? please help. seriously. we can do this. Make Alltracks Great (again?). Seeing all the options in front of you helps you decide what you are willing to pay for. Yes, the more expensive stuff usually has better quality, but a good side by side comparison helps really figure out what you want to do. For those of us in the rust belt/salt belt : stainless makes a lot of sense (so does at least weekly car washes) so our exhaust doesn't rust to bits.


edited 12/25/17 Thanks 2 Melted Solid. Anyone else got a product I'm missing on here?

You can add all DSG tunes and all intercoolers to that list. Also, unitronic is an option for stage 1 - IS20.

I would like to keep this thread going if anybody else can list their mods and how the mods have affected driveability etc. thanks

Eurodyne Maestro - Moose tune
TVS Stage 3 DSG tune
GTI / Golf R HPFP and vacuum box assembly
APR HPFP
Precision Raceworks Stage 3 450 LPFP
Golf R injectors
WMI
Running e50
DBV2 v2 turbo soon to be CTS Boss 500
IE downpipe and intake
Magic intercooler

Rides great as a daily driver so far.


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2017 Alltrack 6mt

Just Stage one 91 APR tune, Borla mufflers, APR intake, turbo inlet and intake pipe. Runs good, pulls strong but planning on is20 and new clutch, Revo intercooler over the winter.