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Homebrew climate control questions

Khanmots

New member
Location
DFW
So, had my RSX-S totaled a few months ago and just replaced it with a GTI Sport in night blue metallic a few weeks ago. Liking it so far, better highway cruiser than my last one :)

That said, one of the compromises I made when choosing the GTI was that I gave up automatic climate control (I just couldn’t bring myself to spend $6k more for the Autobahn…) Unfortunately this is a major annoyance to me… I guess I got spoiled with my last car.

Anyways, I figure it should be a fun (or frustrating…) project to try to build a custom climate control system. No, I don’t mean try to retrofit a climatronic head onto the system, I wouldn’t have the necessary sensors or all of the servos… and while some sensors look to be easy to add, trying to add dual-zone ducting and actuators… hell no :eek:.

Instead I figure on trying to add 2 temp sensors on the air right before it leaves the vents (i.e., like the first year mk5 climatic system), adding 1 or 2 temp sensors on the cabin (since there's no longer any in the panel itself), and a sunlight sensor. Then inject an Arduino as a man-in-the-middle between the head and the actuators, hook the sensors into it, and drive myself batty reading up on controls logic and trying to tune some PID loops…

Now, before I start down this path I’ve got a few questions. First some background.
It looks like the method the control panel uses to control fan speed changed between the Mk5/6 and the Mk7. From the change in connectors I’m guessing that the Mk7 has a pin or two for digital control of a remote hbridge or some such near (or on) the fan.
1) I was able to find some information on the pinouts of the mk5/6 panel, but haven’t (yet) found any on the pinouts for the mk7. Where should I be hunting for this as a noob to the world of VW?
2) Likewise, I've had no luck (so far) in hunting down a wiring diagram showing what the wires from the panel actually hook up to, pointers on where to hunt for this would be great as well (i.e., the wires from pins 7 and 8 of connector A go to actuator whatever).
3) Also, is there any chance of finding documentation on the electrical characteristics of the signals to/from various components? (i.e., I'm guessing that it's an analog voltage reading from sensors that I'll need to map, and I'm guessing that it's either a pwm signal or some encoded ditigal value to actuators and the fan but documentation backing my guesses up would be great...) The alternative I guess is get a scope and start reverse engineering it. I'm guessing that the scope route is what I'll have to do, but would love to be proved wrong.

And no, I've got no clue on the timeline; I'm feeling out the idea right now and will need work to let up some first.
 

mk7matteo

Go Kart Champion
sounds pretty bad, is it really a necessity?
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate

Khanmots

New member
Location
DFW
Back in school I'd coded a PID implementation from scratch... so I at least used to know how they worked. Guess I'll find out just how much (if any! :eek: ) I remember. My bigger concern is that with multiple inputs and outputs I don't think it's going to be a simple one PID controller.

And matteo, I figure it'll be a fun hobby for however many months until I either get tired of messing with it or get something useful out of it.

Right now though I'm struggling with trying to find enough information so that I can really get an idea of what's involved before I can get to working on the controls.
 

George Ab

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Pacific NW

Khanmots

New member
Location
DFW
So erwin does have schematics, wiring diagrams, and such for the mk7? Was concerned it would just be "here's how to diagnose and replace a clogged air filter" kind of stuff. But if it's got stuff that shows me where all the wiring runs and what's connected to what... that'd be awesome.

From reading your post I'm a bit confused as to which control panels you were looking at.

From what I've seen it's nigh impossible to retrofit climatronic in, you have to rework ductwork, run stuff through the firewall, add control actuators and all sorts of other mess that involves disassembling seemingly half the car.

And unfortunately I don't think you're going to get a drop-in like was done in your referenced DIY (it's what gave me ideas too! :D ) with the 2010 control panel replacement.

At least from the photos I've found of the back of the various panel models it looks like they changed the electrical interface up in the mk7. For instance on the mk5/6 panels there was a 5-pin connector that looked to have heavy gauge wire and pins that I'm assuming drove the fan direct (number of pins would appear to correlate to the 4 fan speeds plus a ground); and on the mk7 this is no longer present and more fan speeds are supported so I'm guessing that it's now just sending signals via CAN to some fan controller elsewhere.

Anyways, it's implied in that thread that starting somewhere in 2011 the control panels couldn't just have sensors attached and start working, so I seriously doubt if we can do it with our mk7 panel, hence the man-in-the-middle approach I'm considering.
 

George Ab

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Pacific NW
So erwin does have schematics, wiring diagrams, and such for the mk7?

Yes, everything the VW technicians have access to WRT service manuals and schematics. Will take an hour or two to download everything for your model of car and other models or years if you like.

The heater systems are Climatronic I and Climatronic II which when connected using sensors and bus lines supports the 2 zones. When I saw a couple sensors and control module with wiring it didn't look like a big deal, but when I learned about different heater units I walked away from further investigation.
 
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