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Charge pipes thread to end all

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
Awesome maths, I agree with your conclusion as far as when the pipes will be "needed", and that there are likely gains that your formulas can't account for by smoother bends, loss of kinks, etc.

To the point of manufacturer dynos showing gains, you are talking about a part similar to the turbo muffler delete, turbo inlet pipe, "upgraded" silicone IC connectors. All of these together will effect something, but any one of them on their own might show zero identifiable/repeatable increases on a dyno. That is the nature of dyno testing, because even same car, same day, same fuel, same dyno can have a few % variation between runs at different parts of the RPM ranges, not just peak numbers. So when your gains could be 5 hp, that's within the variation over say 3 dyno runs and your gains are "lost". Why would you want to advertise that? You wouldn't, so you just don't see dynos.

There may be other more identifiable gains like noise, spool time or throttle response, and that's the merit most of those parts sell on IMO.

To the Stage 3+ 500hp and up club, if this is a bottle neck (which is isn't on up to IS38 cars if maths stick) then you should definitely see a verifiable improvement on a dyno, and it would be good to see a back to back to prove that.
 

George Smooth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
South Africa
To add to the discussion on the right is the turbo outlet pipe on the VW TCR race car.



I am soon going to test one of the outlet pipes from turbo to intercooler on our R which is at 500whp on the stock part. If it doesnt show a gain back to back on this then I think we have our answer in terms of peak power. The car has got a decent amount of lag so we can also see if it picked up spool.
In general from people that have fitted them and I can trust their judgement there seems to be a spool benefit. Most have coupled the pipe with a turbo muffler delete which could be the cause of this.
 

0bLiViOuS

Go Kart Champion
Location
Orange County
Good find George. Any idea how big that piping is?
 

B95zP

Ready to race!
Location
AZ
To add to the discussion on the right is the turbo outlet pipe on the VW TCR race car.


Just saw a vid about this car on Fri, and was fascinated by the IC setup they use. Metal section of the outlet pipe doesn't look much larger than OE, but flares at the IC?
 

Chronic

Go Kart Champion
After install of all piping now which is all 2.5" definitely makes the car sound different,to me the stock parts looked restrictive but what do I know
Going to say,turbo is spooling quicker so power coming on faster and defiantly feels like more TQ
Defiantly won't hurt the car,also noticed I seem to have more power up top but could be the combination of all the mods I've done lately
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
Well that is the big debate on this car. APR actually found it "DID" hurt the car. (which the most common thought is due to the rattles causing the car to pull timing from false knock).
 

MKVIISpec

Ready to race!
Location
Dallas, TX
Well that is the big debate on this car. APR actually found it "DID" hurt the car. (which the most common thought is due to the rattles causing the car to pull timing from false knock).


I believe you, but is there a write up by APR on this somewhere? I'd love to read it. I'm wondering why there would be any additional rattling from upgrading charge pipes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Chronic

Go Kart Champion
I believe you, but is there a write up by APR on this somewhere? I'd love to read it. I'm wondering why there would be any additional rattling from upgrading charge pipes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I have 0 rattling and car performs phenomenal and not only that,I'm sure when I reach stage 3 is were you'll see the benefits more
As my goal in the end is to be part of the 500hp and up club[emoji41]
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
It's the stage 3+ thread on vwvortex. Just talks about all the oem stuff they put back on the car when troubleshooting the stage 3+ R's.

I'll see if I can find it. Owner is on this forum (of the car in question) and has posted about it before.
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
We updated to the new production intent file and WG and redynoed at 402 AWTQ / 422 AWHP.

We then removed his aftermarket parts and installed new APR and OEM parts. We replaced his intake, intercooler, hoses and clamps with APR* parts. We replaced his motor mounts, diverter valve, turbo outlet hose and throttle body pipe with OEM parts. We removed all water/meth parts. We changed his oil to 300v. We gapped the plugs to the proper specs. We pressure tested the system to 35 PSI to confirm it was leak free. We redynoed and it put down 410 AWTQ / 444 AWHP*.

*=Other parts were aftermarket (just not APR).

Reference thread (it's near the end)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7718882-The-APR-Stage-3-and-3-club-The-all-about-it-thread

Basically on a car making over 500 bhp, they found the OEM DV, oem charge pipe, and oem throttle pipe were not causing any significant restriction.

But this is why we have this thread. There is a ton of threads with these pipes. Lots of owners claiming various things. Zero dynos and zero data on them other then APR basically saying they are fine at 500 hp. Those aftermarket pipes are pretty freaking expensive for no data! Needz the data!
 

Bawlti

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal, Canada
Interesting thread, following.

I've added an intercooler to my Uni stage 2 ECU-TCU combo after reading the "Intercooler performance" thread. Let's see how this go!

Charge pipes aren't cheap, but I pretty much already have all the other bolt-ons (intake, downpipe, intercooler, inlet pipe, turbo muffler delete) and I don't plan to go further than stage 2.
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
All of these threads have one purpose. To see where we should best spend our money! (and where we can save it for better mods!)
 

Chronic

Go Kart Champion
Ya I hear ya on that one
 
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