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Difference between Euro and NA mk7 downpipe?

A

Attanasio666

New member
I noticed North American mk7 have 2 cat but I have also seen pictures with only 1 cat and stock exhaust. Is it possible that North American models have 2 cat while European ones have only 1 cat? Also, if this is the case, do you think this is where the 10hp difference between European and North American models is?

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breaking badly

breaking badly

Banned
Location
St. Olaf
Yes, that's true. There are differences on the DP/cat section. ;)

NA spec Mk.7 GTI - two cats.
Euro spec Mk.7 GTI - one cat.

Not sure on the new 7.5 GTI Performance as it is now Euro 6C* compliant,
while the 7.5 non-PP is still just Euro 6. Could be uprated hardware perhaps.
Anyway, any Euro spec 7.0 GTI including the Clubsport has been single cat.

However I don't think that's critical to engine power. There are other major
hardware differences like the dual injection which is exclusive to Euro/ROW
spec GTIs (and Rs**), though even that isn't crucial. It's mainly to both suit
different markets and different climates. It's hotter in some states compared
to Northern or central Europe. The manufaturer needs to cut power to better
protect the engine. You may argue why don't they perform advanced cooling
measures, but fitting auxiliary radiators like they do on the R would cost more
money and cars (Volkswagens) are cheap in the US. Cheaper than in Europe,
not to say you get what you pay for . . .



*which will be mandatory from 9.2018 for any freshly licensed car and for
any firstly homologated model hitting the market from 9.2017 on

**not sure but I guess NA spec Rs also come with it
 
GeorgeTDI

GeorgeTDI

Ready to race!
Location
EU
Car(s)
Golf Mk6 TDI
I looked at my 1.8 TSI MK7 downpipe and I can see one catalyst towards the rear end ("1" in the first picture) . Is there a second catalyst higher up, near the turbo ? Or is the intermediary muffler on the catback also a catalyst ?

In other words, is there a second catalyst somewhere in these pictures ?
 

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bdelaney4000

bdelaney4000

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Location
Chester, NH
First catalyst is right off the turbo second is downstream just after the sub-frame mount. In your lower picture you've highlighted the resonator.
 
ChrisMk77

ChrisMk77

Autocross Champion
Location
Sweden
Car(s)
2018 GTI Performance
breaking badly said:
Yes, that's true. There are differences on the DP/cat section. ;)

NA spec Mk.7 GTI - two cats.
Euro spec Mk.7 GTI - one cat.

Not sure on the new 7.5 GTI Performance as it is now Euro 6C* compliant,
while the 7.5 non-PP is still just Euro 6. Could be uprated hardware perhaps.
Anyway, any Euro spec 7.0 GTI including the Clubsport has been single cat.

However I don't think that's critical to engine power. There are other major
hardware differences like the dual injection which is exclusive to Euro/ROW
spec GTIs (and Rs**), though even that isn't crucial. It's mainly to both suit
different markets and different climates. It's hotter in some states compared
to Northern or central Europe. The manufaturer needs to cut power to better
protect the engine. You may argue why don't they perform advanced cooling
measures, but fitting auxiliary radiators like they do on the R would cost more
money and cars (Volkswagens) are cheap in the US. Cheaper than in Europe,
not to say you get what you pay for . . .



*which will be mandatory from 9.2018 for any freshly licensed car and for
any firstly homologated model hitting the market from 9.2017 on

**not sure but I guess NA spec Rs also come with it
Click to expand...

The 245ps Euro 6c GTI Performance has the regular cat plus particle filter in the secondary cat position.
 
GeorgeTDI

GeorgeTDI

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Location
EU
Car(s)
Golf Mk6 TDI
bdelaney4000 said:
First catalyst is right off the turbo second is downstream just after the sub-frame mount. In your lower picture you've highlighted the resonator.
Click to expand...
Just like in the picture below ? If so, can the first cat be removed (too) ? Any downsides ?
 

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Last edited:
MeltedSolid

MeltedSolid

Autocross Newbie
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
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'15 Golf, e36 328i
GeorgeTSI said:
Just like in the picture below ? If so, can the first cat be removed (too) ? Any downsides ?
Click to expand...

Yes, that. The first cat is the one that affects performance the most.
 
GeorgeTDI

GeorgeTDI

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Ok, so that's the one they say causes the o2 (lambda) sensor problems, which is part "9" in the picture, right ?

If so, any good "definitive" thread about how to overcame those problems ? I'll be running a tune, probably stage 2 from APR.
 
MeltedSolid

MeltedSolid

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Location
San Francisco Bay Area
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'15 Golf, e36 328i
In order to run stage 2, you need an aftermarket downpipe, which completely replaces that whole section with the two cats. The aftermarket downpipe will either have a high flow cat or be catless. This will cause a CEL if you don't have a stage 2 tune, but the stage 2 tune will disable that error code entirely. This is something you need to think about if you live in a location that has smog checks, but is otherwise a non-issue.
 
GeorgeTDI

GeorgeTDI

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Location
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Golf Mk6 TDI
And what if I simply replace the 2 cats with 2 pipes ? Would that qualify as an aftermarket downpipe ? :)
 
MeltedSolid

MeltedSolid

Autocross Newbie
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
'15 Golf, e36 328i
I think Twindad did something similar a while ago. He actually just removed the cat material and supposedly it worked pretty well. You can't revert back to stock after that though.
 
GeorgeTDI

GeorgeTDI

Ready to race!
Location
EU
Car(s)
Golf Mk6 TDI
MeltedSolid said:
I think Twindad did something similar a while ago. He actually just removed the cat material and supposedly it worked pretty well. You can't revert back to stock after that though.
Click to expand...
Thanks and yes, that would be a problem. I have searched and the turbo flange on the 1.8 TSI is the same dimension as that on the 2.0 GTI (not sure about the R). The pipe diameter is slightly larger they say, 2.5" GTI vs 2.25" TSI throghout. Which is strange, because I measured it yesterday and was pretty sure the TSI DP diameter is around 60mm, while the catback was around 55-57mm. Anyway I'll either modify my stock, or I could get a used GTI stock DP and gut that instead :)


So I take it the only way to get rid of the sensor errors, once the first cat is removed, is to flash the ecu with a stage2 type software which accounts for the catless downpipe, right ?
 
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TwinDad

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
I gutted the first cat on a gti pipe and it works just as good as a 3" aftermarket one. Some will say other6, but Garretto has even done back to back dynos to show it works the same. The 3" aftermarket won't be better until you start going more than is38.
 
TwinDad

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
The above pictures was when I first did it on the stock downpipe on is12. It worked well, but maybe 85-90% of the aftermarket pipe. I couldn't carry as much boost above 4,500 as I could on the 3". With the gti downpipe, I have no trouble at all even with is20.
 
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