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APR intercooler yes or no?

dwvw

Go Kart Newbie
Of course conditions are different, but it does go to show how bad the factory intercooler heatsoaks. I'd have to go find the dyno sheets again to see how the HP was affected. As far as the IAT's I logged they were higher across the board, and didn't drop as much as the aftermarket intercooler once you had some speed going. For the average drive it wouldn't make much of a difference probably, but if you are sitting in traffic and then the road opens up and you want to do some canyon blasting you will definitely feel it. I am always thinking from an enthusiast standpoint on these forums, because if you are using your car as an appliance to get from A to B you probably aren't here, and you certainly aren't asking questions about an intercooler.
 

MyGolfMk7

Go Kart Newbie
Location
FL
Car(s)
B5 S4, Mk7 GTI
Of course conditions are different, but it does go to show how bad the factory intercooler heatsoaks.

Not knowing what else may have changed, and the general variability inherent in a chassis dyno, attributing the changes solely to IC heat soak is risking being wrong.


I'd have to go find the dyno sheets again to see how the HP was affected. As far as the IAT's I logged they were higher across the board, and didn't drop as much as the aftermarket intercooler once you had some speed going. For the average drive it wouldn't make much of a difference probably, but if you are sitting in traffic and then the road opens up and you want to do some canyon blasting you will definitely feel it. I am always thinking from an enthusiast standpoint on these forums, because if you are using your car as an appliance to get from A to B you probably aren't here, and you certainly aren't asking questions about an intercooler.

Enthusiasts have a habit of rationalizing the purchase of aftermarket parts for their appliance based on marketing claims that are often skewed in one way or another. When challenged to demonstrate the magnitude of gain, if any, of these parts under typical operating conditions they struggle to produce credible evidence.

What you have presented from your dyno experience indicates that a peak difference of 10 whp is possible. Street conditions are more favorable, which would reduce the delta, and in addition everywhere else from the peak will experience less of a delta.

Being able to define the performance gains better will help make an informed decision about purchasing an aftermarket IC, or not.
 

dwvw

Go Kart Newbie
I hardly think paying to dyno, and running logs as rationalizing marketing claims. I used physics to determine if their were measurable differences. And there were.
 

N2fastcars

Ready to race!
Location
VB
The APR intercooler is next on my list. The highest temps I’ve seen in the last few weeks has been 48*. I’m definitely waiting until spring though. Today I ran out third gear, it was 28* outside and it pulled very well!
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
We do have an utterly exhaustive and excessive amount of intercooler comparisons on this platform. Tons of graphs, tons of data points. Knock yourself out.

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpost.php?p=290515&postcount=9

TLDR: Both the R, and GTI lose power due to timing retard after a single pull with the stock intercooler. (Both intercoolers are practically identical, with only a 10% difference in volume).
 

MyGolfMk7

Go Kart Newbie
Location
FL
Car(s)
B5 S4, Mk7 GTI
I hardly think paying to dyno, and running logs as rationalizing marketing claims. I used physics to determine if their were measurable differences. And there were.

I've never claimed that there aren't differences. I've also not claimed that if you want to maximize dyno numbers that you shouldn't go aftermarket. The dyno comparison is useful information, but only marginally so for the street environment and DD conditions I am talking about.

We do have an utterly exhaustive and excessive amount of intercooler comparisons on this platform. Tons of graphs, tons of data points. Knock yourself out.

That's a nice collection, but I would not go so far as to say it is exhaustive. There seems to be no standardized conditions for taking the measurements, i.e. gear and engine speed range. Atmospheric conditions are almost never documented, I only counted 5 charts that mention the ambient temps. Additionally there is a single log for a stock GTI and single one for stock R IC.

I've looked at some of that data but after seeing how inconsistent the methods were I decided not to try and draw any firm conclusions, and the fact that there is not much to go on for stock setups.

If the stock IC heat soaks after a single pull, and then needs a period of recovery (how long?) that's not a big deal for the situation I am addressing. I'm talking about situations where the car may be merging onto a highway, passing a vehicle on a two lane road, accelerating to jump into a gap in another lane, situations where the additional torque from the aftermarket tune helps to accelerate the car, but it's not being strung out to redline repeatedly.
 

Aussie R

Ready to race!
Location
Australia
In those circumstances above I think the stock IC is fine. I have scangauge ii to monitor inlet temps etc, not saying it's 100% accurate but I run stage 2 HO with stock IC on ROW tune which is known to produce close to 400hp and 430lbs of torque.

In the manner I drive the car and conditions I drive in the my inlet temps are generally about 10 deg C over ambient. It goes up to say 20c over ambient in heat and heavier traffic. The good thing with stage 2 is I barely ever need to go over 4k rpm as car already flying by then and it's the top end of the rev range that you get heat soak.

I'm not saying not to get IC as everything I've researched will show it's a great mod to do probably up there with DP. If you have the $ and or can install yourself then 100% go for IC upgrade.
 

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
The reason there is only one stock GTI and stock R graph, is because after collecting a half dozen of them, they were all the same, so we just used one as the generic example. All examples were the same. Timing pull at the end of the initial pull on IS20 and IS38 stock cars,due to increasing IAT's caused the stock units inability to shed the heat or maintain consistent heat levels. This is mirrored in manufacturer dyno's. (The forums just confirms it).

In most of the graphs/links, an "average" is chosen from the available charts. Otherwise it would be pages and pages long. You can find these other examples in the thread the summary is in. (It's 50+ pages of data)

Most of the intercoolers in the thread have multiple datazap links, just have to dig into them. The initial graph is just a basic look at the available graphs. Some of the IE graphs have dozens, going from stock cars to modified in a variety of tunes, ambient, etc.

This is the best you are going to get, considering how difficult and time consuming it is to swap the intercooler on this platform. (outside of a manufacturer tests, and that is a whole nother discussion).
 

Noize1

Ready to race!
Location
Nashville
So much yes! Factory IC isn’t good for repeated runs. You can even see a big power drop in the stock IC with back to back dyno runs on a tuned car.
 
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