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Daytime Running Lights & Fog Lights?

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Golpher1

Ready to race!
Location
Australia
xPETEZx said:
Why would you want to be driving around with Fogs on all the time?
Just because they are LED does not mean they are not blinding/distracting.
The whole point of a fog lamp is to shine bright through the fog.
Having them on during the day is not so bad I suppose, as its so bright out anyway. But when driving at night, somebody coming the other way with Fogs on is extremely distracting.

Dont blind other drivers because it looks cool.

You dont drive with Full beams on all the time either. Why drive with Fogs on all the time.


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Click to expand...

I get you, but these LED's on the MK7 don't seem to be as dazzling as most Foglights + in my research on their legality (still yet to find out definitively), local laws don't consider some LED Foglights illegal if they're factory fitted & also whether they don't surpass a certain number of lights/globes in the bumper.

I'm aiming to contact my Roads Authority this week to find out once & for all if the MK7 Golf GTI's Foglights are in fact illegal here.
 
Avanti

Avanti

Go Kart Champion
Location
UK
xPETEZx said:
Why would you want to be driving around with Fogs on all the time?
Just because they are LED does not mean they are not blinding/distracting.
The whole point of a fog lamp is to shine bright through the fog.
Having them on during the day is not so bad I suppose, as its so bright out anyway. But when driving at night, somebody coming the other way with Fogs on is extremely distracting.

Dont blind other drivers because it looks cool.

You dont drive with Full beams on all the time either. Why drive with Fogs on all the time.


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To be fair, fog comes down to the height of dipped beams so cause glare to the driver as the light reflects off the beads of moisture, the fog lights are below this level, so ordinarily the driver would switch to side lights and put the front fogs on near maintaining their original visibility, likewise when it is snowing heavily. However I agree the kids that drive round with their front fogs on unnecessarily do look more like w4nkers than cool.
 
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pipsyp

Ready to race!
Location
Sussex
The lower LED lights in the UK are purposed as fogs, so id wager where the law is concerned using them for any other purpose is probably illegal.....id expect most traffic cops would pull you for a word for using them.

The reality though is that they are probably designed more so as driving lights....so wont serve to dazzle people if used so technically are probably OK...the law wouldnt account for that though.

I actually really like the single U and dot arrangement on the GTI/GTD lights.....is a little bit of a shame they dont have LED indicators but they look ace otherwise.
 
Avanti

Avanti

Go Kart Champion
Location
UK
pipsyp said:
The lower LED lights in the UK are purposed as fogs, so id wager where the law is concerned using them for any other purpose is probably illegal.....id expect most traffic cops would pull you for a word for using them.

The reality though is that they are probably designed more so as driving lights....so wont serve to dazzle people if used so technically are probably OK...the law wouldnt account for that though.

I actually really like the single U and dot arrangement on the GTI/GTD lights.....is a little bit of a shame they dont have LED indicators but they look ace otherwise.
Click to expand...

More than a word, in towns and cities (or places with street lighting) in Birmingham at least, you will get a FPN or incorrect use.
 
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Golpher1

Ready to race!
Location
Australia
It's official - LED fog lights are also illegal in Australia, unless conditions are hazardous. They aren't designed to be used together with Daytime Running Lights.

Contacted my local Roads Authority, Highway Patrol officer at a police station & received the below email from a representative from the Vehicle Safety Department....

By way of background, the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989 requires all new road vehicles to meet the national vehicle standards known as the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) before they can be supplied to the market for use in transport on public roads. The ADRs are mostly performance based standards that allow for innovation in vehicle design and deliver levels of vehicle safety, emission control and anti‑theft protection that are generally expected by the Australian community.

The ADRs are being increasingly harmonised with international vehicle regulations adopted by the United Nations, except where it is necessary to take account of unique Australian conditions. This is important because over 85 per cent of motor vehicles supplied to the Australian market are imported by vehicle manufacturers, while vehicle sales in Australia represent less than one per cent of the total world production of motor vehicles. Regulation that is based on internationally agreed standards provides consumers with access to the safest vehicles from the global market at the lowest possible cost.

ADR 76/00 specifies the light intensity for Daytime Running Lamps (DRLs) and for the lamp colour to be white in colour. ADR 50/00 specifies the light intensity for Front fog lamps and for the lamp colour to also be white. ADR 13/00 for the installation of vehicle light and lighting devices has requirements for the operation, positioning and geometric visibility for DRLs and Front fog lamps. A few key points to note are DRLs are optional fitment but when fitted are required to turn off when the front fog lamps are turned on. ADR13/00 allows for DRLs and Front fog lamps to be mounted as separate lamps units or combined as part of a multi-function lamp.
 
Finglonga

Finglonga

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Stafford, UK, Earth, Solar System.
I can't understand the confusion, the clue is in the name and yes you will (and rightly so) get fined for using them as it is illegal as it is a hazard to other road users.
 
D

dc/dc

New member
Location
NoVA
DV52 said:
sidepocket: In regards to the part of your post that I have bolded above, I made a suggestion to a colleague on Vortex a couple of days ago that might solve the problem. Below is a variant of my Vortex post including your DRL tweak suggestion.

The change makes the front fog lights act as DRLs and the fogs remain switched-on when the rotary light switch is in the auto position. The way that you switch-off the fogs with my tweak is pull-out the centre switch in the rotary light switch (i.e. the normal fog-on switch - becomes a fog-off switch with my tweak)

Cheers
Don

PS: please excuse the format that I have used in the picture- its the same format that I use in my Leuchte programming paper. I've shown the full 19 x Leuchte channels for each lamp (i.e. the Leuchte channel-set) for completeness.
PPS: I have taken the "old settings " in the table from an NAR model mk7 with LED fog lights (the original query on Vortex was from a USA colleague). If the car has incandescent fog lights, the dimming value for the AB alpha pair will be set to 100 (instead of 127) and the 3 x Set-up adaptation channels will be different (this doesn't matter for the purposes of the tweak)
PPPS: someone on Vortex asked me what happens in the blank parts of the "new settings" in the table - If any adaptation channel has a blank entry in "new settings", leave the setting unchanged

Click to expand...

Sorry to resurrect an old post in this thread, but I joined to share what I discovered yesterday after experimentation and scouring the Internet for hours only to find that it seemed that no one had done it on a MKVII. I used this post and others from DV52 with his spreadsheets to execute this mod on a halogen-equipped NAR GTI S.

The challenge was that after enabling the LED fogs to be DRLs, I could not for the life of me find out how to turn off the default H15 bulb from DRL function. I further wanted to turn off the H15 when low beams were enabled as it looked terrible with the LED fogs on and the Silverstar zXe H7 lowbeams.

Anyway, here are the screenshots of the final results of the adaptations needed to accomplish the above from OBDeleven:

Left:




Right:




Results:

DRLs:


Parking Light position:


Low Beam position:
 
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S

sbarrett4

Ready to race!
Location
Philly Burbs, PA
dc/dc, thanks for posting those extra instructions. I was trying to figure out how to get rid of the DRL's (or whatever they would be called in this configuration) when I turn on the fog lights w/ parking lights.

I already had the DRL's turned off through the MIBII screen. All I needed to change was Lichtfunktion E4 and E5. Changing Lichtfunktion A4 and A5 in my setup didn't make any difference.
 
D

dc/dc

New member
Location
NoVA
sbarrett4 said:
dc/dc, thanks for posting those extra instructions. I was trying to figure out how to get rid of the DRL's (or whatever they would be called in this configuration) when I turn on the fog lights w/ parking lights.

I already had the DRL's turned off through the MIBII screen. All I needed to change was Lichtfunktion E4 and E5. Changing Lichtfunktion A4 and A5 in my setup didn't make any difference.
Click to expand...

Yeah, A4 and A5 are the ones for the actual DRL function with the switch at 0.
 
A

alynch30

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Montreal, Canada
Just got the Euroswitch and I’m able to run both DRLs and Fogs. However when I pull the fog switch the DRLs will dim.

Is this a circuit restriction or it can be coded to not dim? This is the same dim as when the turn indicator blinks.

I’m ok with the flasher dim however I’d like DRL+Fog to be fully bright on day time.
 
DV52

DV52

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Australia
alynch30 said:
Just got the Euroswitch and I’m able to run both DRLs and Fogs. However when I pull the fog switch the DRLs will dim.

Is this a circuit restriction or it can be coded to not dim? This is the same dim as when the turn indicator blinks.

I’m ok with the flasher dim however I’d like DRL+Fog to be fully bright on day time.
Click to expand...

alynch: Short answer is NO. Longer answer is as follows:

The aiming characteristics of the DRL reflector is designed for maximum recognition by oncoming vehicles during daylight hours. The same DRL "Luminaire" (which is the reflector & housing) is also used for the Parking -Light function (PL) - I think yanks call this "side-light"? As you know, the PL function turns-on during night-time with the low beams.

To minimize the "miss-alignment" of the DRL/PL fitting for oncoming traffic, the boffins @ VW dim the lamp for the PL function. This dimming is done as a Leuchte-command, it's not a circuit restriction.

No, the PL dimming function is normally entirely separate to the dimming that happens with the turn-signal (which is called "DRL Wink")

Don
 
seanmcd1

seanmcd1

Autocross Newbie
Location
SC
Golpher said:
Anticipating the arrival of an MY16 GTI this week & wondering if the DRL & LED Fog Lights can be activated at the same time?

Can't say that I've noticed any with both fired up on the road, hence the question.

Edit...
Found this image....http://tinyurl.com/ovncyd9

But hoping just the DRL/Fogs can be used (sans headlights).

Oh, I have my hopes up...
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=403&stc=1&d=1372455715
:)
Click to expand...
Your fog lights are for driving in the fog, or heavy rain when it's hard to see. Only the most uncool drivers in town turn them on at any other time.
 
A

alynch30

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Montreal, Canada
DV52 said:
alynch: Short answer is NO. Longer answer is as follows:

The aiming characteristics of the DRL reflector is designed for maximum recognition by oncoming vehicles during daylight hours. The same DRL "Luminaire" (which is the reflector & housing) is also used for the Parking -Light function (PL) - I think yanks call this "side-light"? As you know, the PL function turns-on during night-time with the low beams.

To minimize the "miss-alignment" of the DRL/PL fitting for oncoming traffic, the boffins @ VW dim the lamp for the PL function. This dimming is done as a Leuchte-command, it's not a circuit restriction.

No, the PL dimming function is normally entirely separate to the dimming that happens with the turn-signal (which is called "DRL Wink")

Don
Click to expand...

All right then I’ll look for the code once I get my OBDeleven!

I know for sure that my DRL are fully bright if I turn off the fog.
 
VentoGT

VentoGT

Ready to race!
Location
South Shore, MA
May I just comment that perhaps a reason we don't get as interesting a mix of cars in the US is likely because of the seriousness/understanding of road respect, manners and rules in the UK and ROW...this simple lighting discussion sheds light [pun intended] on how much more of a privilege driving is elsewhere in the world than the US, where it is seen as a rite of passage.

Probably the same reason we have crap lane discipline on our highways. Sorry for the thread jack--back to DRL fogs :)
 
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