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30psi R's running around?

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
Listen, I get it, this is not my first rodeo. Have owned many forced induction cars in my life.

I'm mearly saying that it would seem as of late, some of those accepted thresholds are being challenged pushed with great results. My personal experience on this platform, 2 R's currently, hasn't spelled the doom an gloom that is perpetuated by many over the years. True tomorrow anything can happen, but so far on not 1 but 2 R's I haven't had a single issue and other brand tuned R customers have only been impressed/pissed, so I think UM knows how to tune these.

Once again, really, I appreciate the information and opinions even if I disagree with some of them. I think it's great that there are so many enthusiasts out there and awesome that there are so many options for us to choose from. It's great to discuss/argue with each other as generally, we are all looking to achieve similar goals.

My main point in starting this thread, was for those already running UM's aggressive tunes, probably set somewhere between 27-29 peak psi, depending when ya were tuned, if ya had bumped it to 30, as there are topics on it in UM threads on other forums, or if you'd bought the cable and adjusted your loaded adjustable file yourself after conversations with Fred etc

I understand that some have always thought that their aggressive files are to aggressive, I'm just not one of them. I have nothing but smiles and great things to say about them personally! But it has become apparent that they are not nearly as popular on this forum as they are on others, no biggie, this thread did teach me that :)

I'm not looking to argue any points because it's clear you've got it figured out for you, but my point is pushing the turbo like this, 30 psi being just a number, has risks. I'm trying to give you a more realistic perspective that there might not be a second free lunch and you could actually be hurting your overall performance to see 30 psi on a gauge.

It's not about what is "too aggressive" or not, it's about what makes sense and unless you've done some actual dyno tuning back to back my hypothesis is that you're seeing very little gain by pushing peak boost to 30 psi. You've created more heat, increased load on the turbo (accepted thresholds be dammed), and might have nothing beneficial to show for that. More risk than reward. But that's not what you want to hear.

Now if you've got back to back dynos showing that this has a real overall benefit, post it up! I'm not saying I know I'm right, or that running 30 psi on your UM tune is absolutely bad, but I do know that when you're dealing with a static turbo compressor map and you're actively pushing the turbo outside of it's efficiency range, you're going to have a bad time.

Also the thread title didn't really direct UM tuned Golf R owners to discuss why they have their tunes set at a certain PSI, and I don't really see the point of actively limiting the discussion to that tuner and being disappointed in the forum when you don't get an echo chamber from it.

Anyway, hopefully some like minded chap hops in and shares his experiences like on the other forums.
 

KASPER1

Go Kart Champion
Location
AMONGST U
No bud, not arguing at least not meaning to come off negative or confrontational with ya. It's like you said, it's such a short spike anyway, you'd really never see it anyway using LC, for as UM's launches are 4500, 4000, and a "soft launch" pick whatever's boost you want to leave on, and staying wot as I'm always way above that rpm to boost correlation anyway. You'd only see the spike flooring it from a dead stop off idle for a blink of an eye. I concur with what you're saying if it were holding boost that high, personally don't think the quick spike is long enough to generate the heat long enough to be detrimental at least in terms of heat.

Was mearly curious if those already spiking at 28-29 bumped to 30 and I did reference UM tune in the first post and every post since. And no I haven't had it on the dyno but it has outrun apr ho tunes on the street, so in MY experience UM's tuning, at least their aggressive tune vs apr's aggresive tune has not disappointed me. I'll get it to my buddy's dyno, it's just the busy season and paying customers take priority.

And I wasn't trying to come off as a know it all, I'm not and I'm new to VW and turbo 4s honestly, was just trying to let ya know that it's not my first modified forced induction car. I had a syclone, Sti, ecoboost sho, supercharged mustangs these R's along with numerous na v8's and nitrous cars. Just didn't want you to think you were talking to a newb, that's all, you're not arguing with a stupid kid who doesn't know any better and is always right lol. You're arguing with a not quite as stupid old man who's been around the block a few times :D

Anyway I welcome the discussion/argument/difference of opinions as that's what these forums are all about. Like I said, generally all of us are trying to get to the same place, and information and experiences are valuable when researching options. I will freely admit that I'm one bad experience away from having a different opinion but so far so good, and mainly as I stated earlier, figure the difference from 29-30 spike is minimal. But I understand that you (and others) don't like the 29 spike either. I just assumed there were more guys on this forum UM tuned, in the same boat I'm in and that doesn't seem to be the case on this forum.
 

nate704

Go Kart Champion
Location
Virginia
KASPER, what is your experience with UM tune?
Do you have the red tune?
Does it require the TCU tune or Can I just get the high tq tune?
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
I've never actually said I like or don't like a high boost spike, just that most tuners avoid low RPM boost spikes to avoid big torque spikes which can bend rods, and cause surge. With modern tuning, that control is what keeps cars running with stock like reliability, and is definitely preferred by most I'm sure.

Not even sure what an aggressive tune means anymore, but it can't be identified by only the peak boost number.

What I will say, my personal preference for a tuned street driven car is that I would much rather run a blend of ethanol (usually E25-E30 estimated by calculators, I don't have a sensor) to allow for increased timing, rather than push my turbo harder and roll those dice. I'd be willing to bet that a back to back dyno of your car with an ethanol blend peaking at 27-28 PSI will have lower intake temps, higher timing, lower EGTs, and make more power under the curve than your car running only pump gas peaking at 30 psi. And your motor and turbo will be happier for it.

Biggest point I'm trying to make to you is that unless you're actively dynoing your car to find the best setup to push it to the max, just changing peak boost numbers might not be whats best for you. You could be working against yourself.
 

KASPER1

Go Kart Champion
Location
AMONGST U
KASPER, what is your experience with UM tune?
Do you have the red tune?
Does it require the TCU tune or Can I just get the high tq tune?

Ya it does require a tcu tune and UM's tcu tune is great also, not only night and day to stock but night and day different to apr's, for example!
 

KASPER1

Go Kart Champion
Location
AMONGST U
I've never actually said I like or don't like a high boost spike, just that most tuners avoid low RPM boost spikes to avoid big torque spikes which can bend rods, and cause surge. With modern tuning, that control is what keeps cars running with stock like reliability, and is definitely preferred by most I'm sure.

Not even sure what an aggressive tune means anymore, but it can't be identified by only the peak boost number.

What I will say, my personal preference for a tuned street driven car is that I would much rather run a blend of ethanol (usually E25-E30 estimated by calculators, I don't have a sensor) to allow for increased timing, rather than push my turbo harder and roll those dice. I'd be willing to bet that a back to back dyno of your car with an ethanol blend peaking at 27-28 PSI will have lower intake temps, higher timing, lower EGTs, and make more power under the curve than your car running only pump gas peaking at 30 psi. And your motor and turbo will be happier for it.

Biggest point I'm trying to make to you is that unless you're actively dynoing your car to find the best setup to push it to the max, just changing peak boost numbers might not be whats best for you. You could be working against yourself.


I got ya. It's mainly living in that 25-28 anyway. I agree I'll be doing UM's port injection and bigger pump probably flex fuel sensor anyway so I can run e85 and naturally it'll lower boost on that fuel anyway. Our pump gas also has 10% ethanol in it maybe that makes an ever so light difference. Like I said it was all "setup" for a 29 spike so 30 not nearly the difference if you were coming from 26 and jumping to a 30 spike. That was really my basic point to begin with, others setup like me, what have you noticed? Did ya even bother with the 1 psi Spike for a half a heartbeat :) just thought there might be more like me here and obviously there are not.

My car was flashed then data logged on the street and tweaked back n forth anyway as I personally prefer that over a dyno as there isn't nearly as much a load on the car on the dyno as is real world. We're basically on the same page just have different ways of getting there. I will dyno it just for giggles anyway.
 

Aussie R

Ready to race!
Location
Australia
Kasper, Great list on mods you have!

I'm sure UM know what they are doing but I am surprised they are running so much boost. IIRC there was something mentioned that 28psi was max safe level regarding one of the engine/ecu safety mechanisms. But I'm no expert I just remember reading this.

Like you said if just boost spike and rest of time in that 25-28 then I don't see a problem. I believe that APR was running 27/28PSI on HO files before.

Another thing I remember reading was many that upgraded IC were lowing boost slightly and I think many stage 2 tunes with IC file like APR HO now running around 25 PSI.

I know in UK from what I have read that 2 of the biggest custom tuners over there seem to get same if not more power than APR etc but only using around 22-24 PSI so more to the tuning than just turning up the boost. Maybe that's to do with different fuel and different injector set up in ROW cars. Which is showing has affect as most ROW cars with full bolt ons now getting around 410+HP and 580nm torque which is clearly more than US spec.

Again, I'm not an expert and if there is no issues with tune then nothing to worry about. Whether at 28 or 30psi for split second I doubt would have any real effect.
 

Noize1

Ready to race!
Location
Nashville
Kasper,

I pm'd you about UM before seeing this thread. Didn't hear back yet, but disregard PM. I learned everything I needed in here- UM not gonna be my cup of tea. Way too much boost, not my style at all. I'm going to wait for custom.
 

KASPER1

Go Kart Champion
Location
AMONGST U
Kasper,

I pm'd you about UM before seeing this thread. Didn't hear back yet, but disregard PM. I learned everything I needed in here- UM not gonna be my cup of tea. Way too much boost, not my style at all. I'm going to wait for custom.

Weird, I responded. Lots of options, but through UM, also, just saying. Your local installer/vendor/shop can run you through options. You don't have to spike boost that high if you don't want to, as a matter a fact, you can buy their cable and make minor adjustments as needed/preferred. Boost, octane and launch boost etc anyway there are tons of options out there, research, shop around, buy whatever suits ya personally. Ya can't go wrong with a dyno tune, if the tuners worth a damn, and road tests it afterwards, wasn't an easy option when mine were initially tuned near me. But for the record, they (um) are very well known and respected in vw tuning and basically their dsg tune is accepted as the standard I will state again that both UM tuned mk7r's have performed flawlessly and quite ferociously to date and I'm a very happy customer, twice!
 
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