wascally wabbitt's GTI

[wascally wabbitt]

Hey all, I've noticed a pattern where water my GTI's rear passenger door jamb seems to remain wetter than the others, and water seems to pool on the jamb and rubber seal after opening the door. None of my other doors seem to do this. In the past I've seen very small pools of water, usually a single hexagon's worth, in the rear passenger monster mat. Today I checked after about 5 days of the car sitting. I found a big ol pool of water under the mat. The car sits on a slight slope that elevates the rear passenger corner, which would explain why it pooled near the center tunnel area.

The other door jambs are bone dry.

Not happy. I baby this car and the last thing I want is it rusting out from under me. I want to fix this. Have any of you guys seen this before, what could be the cause, and how would you recommend I start troubleshooting? Thanks!!!

EDIT :

• The GTI was taken to a professional window tinting shop in June 2020.
  • Tinting windows involves removing the plastic/fabric door covers because they cover the bottom of the windows.
  • Within a few months of the tint job, I occasionally noticed tiny drops of water on the hexagonal pattern in the rear passenger floormat.
  • These appeared infrequently enough that I never really gave them a second thought.
    • assumed they were simply from opening the door in the rain
  • HOWEVER, the GTI was garage-kept and not driven in the rain whenever practical.
• Since October 2023, the GTI is parked outside nearly all the time.
  • Its current parking spot elevates the rear passenger corner relative to the rest of the car (that corner is highest).
• Since then, I've noted water excessive retention in the door jamb and a couple occasions where water more obviously pooled and even spilled over door jamb seal.
  • This happens to the rear passenger door jamb even when all other door jambs are dry as a bone.
  • Other doors / door jambs appear to drain as intended.
  • The latest incident noted in the OP was the most egregious, where a few tablespoons of water pooled in the rear passenger footwell.
    • Since the rear passenger corner is the highest corner of the car, the water gathered in the corner of the footwell near the raised tunnel in the floor.
    • Curiously, the top of the floormat was dry.
    • Water was thawed and removed with paper towels. Floormat was removed so the carpet could dry. Car was driven around for about 90 minutes with the AC on max temperature and fan speed. AC fan dial was set to floor vents only, and fan slots directed at passengers were all shut to maximize airflow directed at the floor.
    • After driving around for ~90 minutes, carpet felt dry to the touch.
    • About 4 days later, it still feels dry to the touch, but cold weather makes it hard to be 100% certain. Will be leaving a desiccant canister in the cabin for now.
• After researching online, learned that car doors are designed to allow water to roll off the window and into inside of the door.
  • The door itself is a hollow shell, and water rolling down the window is intended to drip through the inside of the door and leave the door's bottom via designated drain holes
  • The plastic door card attaches to the door via a couple screws and 6 pop-fit plastic retainer pins
    • These plastic retainer pins pop into holes in the metal door
  • Therefore, holes in the cabin-facing side of the door present potential points of ingress that car designers need to address. These points include but aren't limited to:
    • Holes around door card retainer pins
      • Door card's retainer pins have built-in rubber-like washers, to create a seal
    • Several holes exist in the door to accommodate wire looms
    • Door speaker hole is another potential leak point
      • Speaker carriage has a mounting flange with preinstalled flange seal. Known leak point.
• The interface between plastic door card and metal door was inspected
  • Found bottom of door card is not installed flush against the door itself
  • Could slightly prop open door card to inspect within
  • Door card mounting pin not 'popped' into pin hole in door
    • Found snail trail of dried water emanating from this mounting pin hole
  • Bottom edge of speaker appeared to have a faint snail trail of dried water. Not as obvious as dried water from door card pin hole.
• Car was parked the opposite way from normal, with rear passenger wheel as the lowest corner. Clear packing tape applied on the outside of the window, over the seam where the bottom of the window meets the door.
  • After rain and snow, door jamb and carpet appear dry

 

[SRGTD]

Failed rear door speaker seals are a known cause of water ingress on the mk7 and mk7.5 Golf. If you have a speaker seal that’s failed, then water could find its way onto the plastic door sill trim on the inside of the car, which then runs over into the footwell.

You can carry out a simple test to see if this is the cause of your problem. With the door open, pour water over the outside surface of the door glass if the door speaker seal has failed, some of the water will exit the door cavity between the bottom of the door card and the metal door panel rather than out of the door drainage holes as it should do.

If you do an internet search on ‘vw golf leaking speaker seals’ you’ll find it’s a fairly common issue.

 

[wascally wabbitt]

Interesting, thanks for the lead! I'll look into it and will give it a shot. Fingers crossed that's what it is.

 

[wascally wabbitt]

OP was updated with initial exploration of root cause. Below is TL;DR on how I intend to fix it based on reading other peoples' trials and tribulations, and HumbleMechanic's video.

• Plan to redress:
  • Purchase plastic trim tools
  • Remove door cards
  • Verify drain holes are clear
  • Remove and replace speaker
    • Drill out rivets or use flush cutters on rivet head
    • Remove factory sealant from speaker flange
    • Place a big ol' bead of RTV gasket maker around speaker flange circumference
      • OR use butyl tape? Will shop around. Seems like butyl tape is preferred in car audio circles
      • regardless, will be applying a bead of RTV around speaker after installation
    • Mount speaker with machine screws and sealing washers on inside of door
      • TBD whether factory speaker flange has clearance for M4 nuts
  • Attempt to determine root cause for why door card was not reinstalled properly
    • Tint installer fault? Were clips broken when removed for tinting? Remains to be seen.
  • Attempt to re-reinstall door card properly
  • Profit?

Will update soon™ with results.

 

[southpawboston]

OP was updated with initial exploration of root cause. Below is TL;DR on how I intend to fix it based on reading other peoples' trials and tribulations, and HumbleMechanic's video.

• Plan to redress:
  • Purchase plastic trim tools
  • Remove door cars
  • Verify drain holes are clear
  • Remove and replace speaker
    • Drill out rivets or use flush cutters on rivet head
    • Remove factory sealant from speaker flange
    • Place a big ol' bead of RTV gasket maker around speaker flange circumference
      • OR use butyl tape? Will shop around. Seems like butyl tape is preferred in car audio circles
      • regardless, will be applying a bead of RTV around speaker after installation
    • Mount speaker with machine screws and sealing washers on inside of door card
      • TBD whether factory speaker flange has clearance for M4 nuts
  • Attempt to determine root cause for why door card was not reinstalled properly
    • Tint installer fault? Were clips broken when removed for tinting? Remains to be seen.
  • Attempt to re-reinstall door card properly
  • Profit?

Will update soon™ with results.

You're on the right track. Definitely go with RTV silicone sealant. When my car was new, I pulled all four door panels and did this preemptively. Five years in, no leaks...

And based on the design of the door, that's pretty much the only failure route. Just make sure all the other grommets and plastic access panel are snug.

 

[southpawboston]

OP was updated with initial exploration of root cause. Below is TL;DR on how I intend to fix it based on reading other peoples' trials and tribulations, and HumbleMechanic's video.

• Plan to redress:
  • Purchase plastic trim tools
  • Remove door cards
  • Verify drain holes are clear
  • Remove and replace speaker
    • Drill out rivets or use flush cutters on rivet head
    • Remove factory sealant from speaker flange
    • Place a big ol' bead of RTV gasket maker around speaker flange circumference
      • OR use butyl tape? Will shop around. Seems like butyl tape is preferred in car audio circles
      • regardless, will be applying a bead of RTV around speaker after installation
    • Mount speaker with machine screws and sealing washers on inside of door
      • TBD whether factory speaker flange has clearance for M4 nuts
  • Attempt to determine root cause for why door card was not reinstalled properly
    • Tint installer fault? Were clips broken when removed for tinting? Remains to be seen.
  • Attempt to re-reinstall door card properly
  • Profit?

Will update soon™ with results.

Just noticed your other points re securing the speaker frame. I would caution against M4 bolts with backing nuts. You might not have sufficient access behind the frame with your hand to thread the nuts. The only access panel is a plastic panel toward the rear of the door, and your hand might not reach. It's been some years, so I can't remember. Also, unless you use nylock nuts, you risk them coming loose from vibration. Instead, I replicated the OEM attachment method, and used rivets.

Here's a photo of my RTV silicone seal around the speaker frame. I not only created a bead to replace the foam, but I also spread a bead around the frame after riveting:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XQ9LnbOj6ku57IVzCT1zb8ZQYak-SOHC/view?usp=sharing

 

[wascally wabbitt]

Just noticed your other points re securing the speaker frame. I would caution against M4 bolts with backing nuts. You might not have sufficient access behind the frame with your hand to thread the nuts. The only access panel is a plastic panel toward the rear of the door, and your hand might not reach. It's been some years, so I can't remember. Also, unless you use nylock nuts, you risk them coming loose from vibration. Instead, I replicated the OEM attachment method, and used rivets.

Here's a photo of my RTV silicone seal around the speaker frame. I not only created a bead to replace the foam, but I also spread a bead around the frame after riveting:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XQ9LnbOj6ku57IVzCT1zb8ZQYak-SOHC/view?usp=sharing

I finally took this on. Popping off the door cards indicated the tint installer mangled the door card pop-clips, which partially explains some of the water intrusion. The speaker flanges were also cracked on the bottom. Unsure if that was a factory defect or caused by the tint installer's hamfisted prying, but the cracks certainly didn't help.

Anyway I installed new speakers with silicone caulking to back up the OEM seal. In hindsight I wish I'd just riveted them or used riv-nuts. I placed bolts on the inside of the door shell with nuts on the outside. I slotted the bolt ends so everything could be torqued. Not only was torquing them a huge PITA, but this setup is probably even harder to disassemble than just drilling out a rivet.

I left it for a few days, then tested both doors at the DIY wash bay. The speakers passed, but I found this grommet was leaking, so I caulked it up. After that, everything tested fine at the spray bay.

A few weeks later, I found the left door speaker leaking again :

Popping off the door card revealed the new speaker's flange had cracked. so I flex-sealed the crap out of it . I'll monitor it for a while and replace it with a permanent solution when I have time. The right door is holding so far thankfully.

 

[wascally wabbitt]

Spring cleaning begins. I've been wanting to address a rusty paint chip where the wheel arch meets the rocker panel. It seems kinda dumb for the plastic cover at the bottom of the arch to NOT cover this area of the paint, which is vulnerable to spray and projectiles coming off the top and front of the wheel:

Removed the rear wheel arch covers for the first time since I bought it new in March 2017. Before reinstalling the arch liner, I'll slather that rusty bolt with cosmoline, then spray everything with Surface Shield. Side note, can't wait to replace those disgusting factory brakes.

I washed the lower wheel arch with soap and water to assess the state of things. There's a bunch of old cosmoline and dirt inside the rocker panel, but the only visible rust was the chip. Hopefully sealing this chip off will delay the inevitable.

I consulted a body shop owner, and he said to use POR-15. My plan is to clean everything up, scuff the paint around the chip, prep the metal area then apply POR-15 per instructions. After that cures, I'll periodically apply a layer of cosmoline and monitor.

 

[kez]

I've recently had this water ingress issue, resorted to taking the door card off in the rear and discovered the water was leaking through the access panel, design is shocking as it's obviously not tight enough to stop water seeping through but also the water seems to be directed onto this panel instead of going down the door and through the drain holes. I don't believe the sealing of speakers as most people do is fixing the actual issue.

I have my car going into VW soon so they can take a closer look and see if the window channel has failed or the seals around the bottom of the window are causing this to happen.

 

[Daks]

Spring cleaning begins. I've been wanting to address a rusty paint chip where the wheel arch meets the rocker panel. It seems kinda dumb for the plastic cover at the bottom of the arch to NOT cover this area of the paint, which is vulnerable to spray and projectiles coming off the top and front of the wheel:

View attachment 280050

Removed the rear wheel arch covers for the first time since I bought it new in March 2017. Before reinstalling the arch liner, I'll slather that rusty bolt with cosmoline, then spray everything with Surface Shield. Side note, can't wait to replace those disgusting factory brakes.

View attachment 280051

I washed the lower wheel arch with soap and water to assess the state of things. There's a bunch of old cosmoline and dirt inside the rocker panel, but the only visible rust was the chip. Hopefully sealing this chip off will delay the inevitable.

View attachment 280049

I consulted a body shop owner, and he said to use POR-15. My plan is to clean everything up, scuff the paint around the chip, prep the metal area then apply POR-15 per instructions. After that cures, I'll periodically apply a layer of cosmoline and monitor.

I took mine to a a shop to get done. Paid $200 a side, this was last year, I think it's coming back

 

[southpawboston]

I've recently had this water ingress issue, resorted to taking the door card off in the rear and discovered the water was leaking through the access panel, design is shocking as it's obviously not tight enough to stop water seeping through but also the water seems to be directed onto this panel instead of going down the door and through the drain holes. I don't believe the sealing of speakers as most people do is fixing the actual issue.

I have my car going into VW soon so they can take a closer look and see if the window channel has failed or the seals around the bottom of the window are causing this to happen.

Yeah, totally shocking how leak-prone these cars are, from multiple sources. I proactively ran a bead of clear silicone caulk around all four of my access panels when I had the door panels off for various upgrade projects. I also sealed the speaker frames while I was at it. They are indeed a real source of leaks, as the cheap open foam seal on the frames breaks down.