E85 and Oil Breakdown

[Crud_muffin]

Found a recent article on ethanol fuel blends and the effect it has on engine oil. Link below. Clifnote version: "Ethanol-resistant engine oil should be produced in order to avoid serious wear from bioethanol, which can lead to engine catastrophic failure."

As many of you probably know, ethanol tends to quickly both dilute good oil and lower viscosity, especially under high-load, turbocharged application. Problem for those of us interested in using e-blends is that ~w-40 oil mostly doesn't come with API SN with Resource Conserving ("RC"). That supplemental designation - RC on the label - ensures the latest available protection for using ethanol blends. API info link and comparison label pictures below.

Right now, the latest VW OE fill is only certified to API SN without RC. If an oil met another standard, the latest ILSAC GF-5, it would be covered for using higher-contents of ethanol. That designation provides "improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons and turbochargers, ... and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85."

It's tough finding a 40 weight European spec oil that can actually certify meeting this latest protection. I know, I know, choosing and making oil recommendations can be like politics. So just personally, I'm going to give Royal Purple a go and keep an eye on it. No, I don't work for them.

Hoping you all can chime in with what you find works for ethanol. We definitely could use more options.

Article: Effect of gasoline–bioethanol blends on the properties and lubrication characteristics of commercial engine oil - http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2017/ra/c7ra00357a

API Oil Categories:
http://www.api.org/products-and-ser...ies-and-documents/oil-categories#tab_gasoline

Royal Purple API-Licensed Oil:
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/royal-purple-motor-oil/#collapseBO

 

[Joel]

Is the royal purple vw 502.00 rated?

 

[Crud_muffin]

Great question. Haven't been able to confirm the VW 50x labeling yet. Only going by the "meets European specifications" on the front label. I believe that covers Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW. Will know in about a week for sure when it comes.

 

[greggles]

RP doesn't meet 502 specifications and isn't recommended for this platform.

List of all the approved oils.
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpost.php?p=319611&postcount=18

VW updates this list periodically, I haven't ever seen RP on it. This doesn't mean RP isn't a good oil, it just means using it in a vehicle under warranty would cause issues if you were to have an issue with your engine, and produced receipts showing a non spec oil. Always stick to recommended oils under the warranty period, there are few hundred to choose from.

 

[Crud_muffin]

RP doesn't meet 502 specifications and isn't recommended for this platform.

List of all the approved oils.
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpost.php?p=319611&postcount=18

VW updates this list periodically, I haven't ever seen RP on it. This doesn't mean RP isn't a good oil, it just means using it in a vehicle under warranty would cause issues if you were to have an issue with your engine, and produced receipts showing a non spec oil. Always stick to recommended oils under the warranty period, there are few hundred to choose from.

Good point, greggles. RP's previous part number for 5w-40 "European" to this day isn't VW 50x approved. They only represent meeting 'European ACEA warranty requirements.' https://www.ecstuning.com/b-royal-purple-parts/engine-oil-5w40-1-quart/01540/

That said, what are our options? With known premature breakdown, do we just go with very conservative oil change intervals, say every 3-5k miles?

 

[greggles]

If it were me, I'd start with a cheaper oil (something like a 0w-40 castrol edge or mobil1) and run a short interval, say 3-4k, and send it in for a UOA to see how the oil is holding up. I'd mention running E85 in the extra info in the UOA, and that you are worried about the oil breaking down.

If its doing fine, no need to worry.

 

[GTI Jake]

Anyone have a link for a reputable oil testing lab who can speak from experience? I run liquid moly at 7k drain interval but really should send out a sample to see if that's too long/short and how things look overall

 

[MKVIISpec]

If it were me, I'd start with a cheaper oil (something like a 0w-40 castrol edge or mobil1) and run a short interval, say 3-4k, and send it in for a UOA to see how the oil is holding up. I'd mention running E85 in the extra info in the UOA, and that you are worried about the oil breaking down.

If its doing fine, no need to worry.

100% agree


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Crud_muffin]

Anyone have a link for a reputable oil testing lab who can speak from experience? I run liquid moly at 7k drain interval but really should send out a sample to see if that's too long/short and how things look overall

Good thinking. Kicking myself because just changed the oil without saving any for a sample. Had 4k with E25 regularly.

 

[Hoon]

Anyone have a link for a reputable oil testing lab who can speak from experience? I run liquid moly at 7k drain interval but really should send out a sample to see if that's too long/short and how things look overall

Oil Analyzers is the best out there.

http://www.oaitesting.com/services.aspx

Blackstone is decent but their fuel dilution numbers are inaccurate, and that it definitely a factor on these cars.

 

[Crud_muffin]

Oil Analyzers is the best out there.

http://www.oaitesting.com/services.aspx

Blackstone is decent but their fuel dilution numbers are inaccurate, and that it definitely a factor on these cars.

Not bad. OA is $34 for standard analysis postage paid, and fuel dilution can be added al la carte. Getting hungry.

Going to add something to calendar to remember to extract about 3k then 5k in the name of science.

 

[GTI Jake]

Thanks for the link!

 

[greggles]

I've only used blackstone in the past (usually with a dyson analysis), so can only speak for them. Only really used them when I was tracking the car, so been about 6 years.

 

[Crud_muffin]

As far as selecting an E85 oil goes, any more suggestions? Or do we just wear out commercial oils and hope shorter intervals do the trick?

USDM MK7's are 'prohibited' by VW for running over 15% ethanol per the owner's manual. So we're not exactly following the book running E30+ for performance.

Of course it would be great if VW approved a 'resource conserving' oil, but the VW 50x standard doesn't call for higher levels of ethanol protection. Where does that leave us?

 

[greggles]

Quick search on BITOG (with e85 on tuned engines) appears to have lots of short OCI intervals. Doesn't seem to be anything in particular with one oil being better then the other, just that you need to cut the intervals down.

Most intervals across the board seem to be around 2-4k. (for tuned, turbo, Direct injection, E85 cars)