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Turbo Inlet Pipe (TIP) Comprehensive Thread

C

Chowderhead72

Ready to race!
Location
Maryland
phxvwking said:
What Kool-aid is this you speak of? I hope you don't think I'm some kind of APR fan-boi. I have never owned any of their products. But I do think they produce some really good ones. With proper research and engineering behind them.
Back on point..
Have you ever seen a CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) model of airflow thru a 90 degree bend in a pipe? Its crap! The airflow does not just flow thru the bend, it slams in to the far wall of the pipe creating a high pressure area and starts to tumble. The near side, by the smaller radius of the bend (inside of the elbow) will have a low pressure area. Then all of the aftermarket TIPs I have seen closeup pics of have a reducer or bellmouth to meet up with the turbo inlet. So.. take all of this turbulent, chaotic airflow with different pressures and velocities, cram it thru a reducer and present it to your compressor. Everything I have learned and observed about airflow into a compressor (Axial or centrifugal flow, Turbo, Centrifugal supercharger, APU, ACM Jet engine) is that they, to operate at the highest efficiency, need clean non turbulent high velocity airflow entering them. The average aftermarket 90 degree welded tube elbow can at best provide only a slightly higher volume of air. While throwing out every characteristic that the turbo actually needs to gain it. The factory designed the stock piece with efficiency in mind, and in this case efficiency= performance. We all know how the auto industry chases every ounce of it in their designs. Look at the stock TIP, Its not really a 90 deg bend, its more like 2 45s with a slight curve in the middle and a constantly reducing ID. The compound curve along its length smooth the airflow and the reducing ID keep velocity up. Now look at the APR piece (or the TTE or LOBA ones). Very similar design to the stock piece, keeping all the features the turbo needs to be efficient AND increasing volume (CFM) over the stock piece. So far APR is the only one on the market even worth looking at. Of course all this is IMO... And if anyone with a engineering background wants to correct me, feel free.. I'm always up for learning something new.
Click to expand...

So... Smother transition that should make it slightly more efficient? Correct? Thanks for all that.
 
phxvwking

phxvwking

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Mesa AZ
Lol, yeah basically. But with the added benefit of reducing the chance of stalling the fan disk. The turbo is just a pump. There are 2 basic types of pumps, positive displacement and centrifugal. The turbo is centrifugal. It can only create a certain amount of pressure (boost). Above that amount no matter how hard it tries, air will flow backwards thru the compressor. Resulting in compressor stall, turbo surge... Now to pull some numbers out of my backside.. lets say that the stock TIP/ turbo combination as designed by VW can hold a 32 PSID (differential). It can do that because of how much attention was paid to the TIP and airflow thru it. It feeds the turbo with clean high velocity air and allows the turbo to be a efficient air pump. It is also much more pressure than will ever be seen by the turbo in stock or modified use. Now if you feed the turbo with turbulent air, its efficiency drops and now it might only be able to hold a 26 PSID. (yes, bs numbers but a accurate enough example) Still more than it will see in stock or modified use, but the margin of error is closer and the probability of a reverse flow condition is greater.
Would you prefer a beer bong that puts 3 wheat sodas in your gullet quickly, or a 5 gallon bucket of suds tossed at your face? Both provide more than you can use. But only one is efficient. (Examples of reverse flow don't apply in this case)
 
AtlantaDad

AtlantaDad

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Cumming, GA
Didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way. Just did not realize theirs was any different than the other half a dozen TIPs already on the market (aside from being cast). Thanks for pointing that out, and for the explanations behind the engineering. I retract my previous comment. :)

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R

rjtrout

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Denver, CO
phxvwking said:
Lol, yeah basically. But with the added benefit of reducing the chance of stalling the fan disk. The turbo is just a pump. There are 2 basic types of pumps, positive displacement and centrifugal. The turbo is centrifugal. It can only create a certain amount of pressure (boost). Above that amount no matter how hard it tries, air will flow backwards thru the compressor. Resulting in compressor stall, turbo surge... Now to pull some numbers out of my backside.. lets say that the stock TIP/ turbo combination as designed by VW can hold a 32 PSID (differential). It can do that because of how much attention was paid to the TIP and airflow thru it. It feeds the turbo with clean high velocity air and allows the turbo to be a efficient air pump. It is also much more pressure than will ever be seen by the turbo in stock or modified use. Now if you feed the turbo with turbulent air, its efficiency drops and now it might only be able to hold a 26 PSID. (yes, bs numbers but a accurate enough example) Still more than it will see in stock or modified use, but the margin of error is closer and the probability of a reverse flow condition is greater.
Would you prefer a beer bong that puts 3 wheat sodas in your gullet quickly, or a 5 gallon bucket of suds tossed at your face? Both provide more than you can use. But only one is efficient. (Examples of reverse flow don't apply in this case)
Click to expand...
I think we have all experienced what "reverse flow" does when using a beer bong lol j/k

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R

rjtrout

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Denver, CO
AtlantaDad said:
Didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way. Just did not realize theirs was any different than the other half a dozen TIPs already on the market (aside from being cast). Thanks for pointing that out, and for the explanations behind the engineering. I retract my previous comment. :)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
No rubbing the wrong way, here. I have been considering the APR unit since it came out because of the way it works and its build quality. Yet, I have heard the other pipes were not as efficient. I am just looking for a little quicker spool up and a modest increase in response, and something that mates well with my Forge intake

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A

Aussie R

Ready to race!
Location
Australia
Local custom tuner near me tested cts inlet on stage 1 tuned MK7R and gained 8.5awkw with improved response.

I can't seem to get link on my mobile. I'll post later but it matches what uk tuners found. 10-15hp gain. More than intake. Most tuners just advise the snow grate removal, panel filter and inlet and best performance with stage 1 tune.
 
G

greggles

Drag Race Newbie
Location
usa
Car(s)
GTI
The MST actually has a dyno for theirs.

 
SugarMouth

SugarMouth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Nevada
The APR does look nice. If you look in my CTS at the end there is a transition from the pipe to the mount. It ramps up pretty fast. Its not a hard lip but a quick transition. The APR being cast simply reduces diameter from inlet to outlet with no disruption.
 
J

Jovian

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Denver, CO
Car(s)
2016 VW GTI
I ordered the Revo turbo inlet hose, we will see how it fits when I get it. Supposedly it does fit left hand drive cars from what a Revo rep posted on Facebook
 
D

Deviation01

Go Kart Champion
Location
St. Louis
jovian said:
I ordered the Revo turbo inlet hose, we will see how it fits when I get it. Supposedly it does fit left hand drive cars from what a Revo rep posted on Facebook
Click to expand...

The original one from turbotechnicks or whatever their name was said RHD wont fit LFD due to master cylinder. Hopefully Revo is designed differently.
 
D

Deviation01

Go Kart Champion
Location
St. Louis
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