Diesel scandal - the consequences

[Kjhcambs]

Picked up my GTD today. Built in July 2015 so Euro 6 engine. Thought hard about cancelling, but always been happy with VW. They have let a lot of people down including the dealerships.

 

[Carlos Fandango]

Thought hard about cancelling

Why? If you had of cancelled you'd have missed out on what is an exceptional car.

 

[HXP]

VW The Brand

I looked at Ford, Vauxhall, Toyota, Seat, Skoda & Hyundai ( anyone who jokes about any of those brands is a bit blinkered they are all good cars in their price segment ) and settled on VW for a few reasons including :

Engineering
Safety
Reliability
Perceived quality
Potential resale value

I own a 1.4 petrol but if I had a diesel I would be pretty upset, this isn't exactly good news.

Owning a VW now makes me wince a bit to be honest - I was quite proud to own one - not so sure now.

It is bound to affect the brand, although the current thinking in the press is that any detrimental effect will be short lived.

There is little chance of VW buying back any cars, they will just remap them and compensate owners if they are forced to, either for increased road tax or for loss of value, no one is going to get the full price of their vehicle back.

In the USA though VW may well have to do more financially as they seem to have stronger consumer protection laws & a willingness to take legal action.

The bigger issue is will the effect on the brand punish the dealerships we all need to support our vehicles, who for once I feel sorry for, i can't imagine the showrooms are packed with new customers at the moment.

If there is a mass recall that will cause problems getting your car booked in for anything as they will be inundated.

I suspect it will all die down in a few weeks, and hopefully in 3 years when I try to trade my VW in for a Ford ( I drove several adding up to about 15 ford years ) I just hope it has a fair trade in value.

I am afraid this is my first and last VW.

I am sure I am over reacting, paranoid, foolish, OCD and a few other things as well and I hope I feel differently when this story does fade.

There are workers in production plants now wondering about their futures, dealerships counting the cost and owners troubled.

Luckily the CEO resigned but probably will be ok with a £1 million a year pension.

Right now I feel the brand has quickly gone from hero to zero in my eyes.

I await the angry and irrational flamers.

HXP

 

[Animoski]

Yeah, as a TSI owner I agree. We are all affected by the hit to the brand: all of sudden being an owner of a VW (any VW) is like being a smoker in the lobby of a children's hospital... or, worse, an owner of a Hummer!

Lots of repercussions for non-diesel VW owners: re-sale value, health of the company holding the warranty, trying to get service done or warranties items honoured while dealers spend all their time handling diesel recalls, etc..

I bought my new GTI a few weeks prior to this.

The compliments have been more common now, but they always ask "how about those crazy big problems they've been having?" - I always have to defend MY car because it's simply not a diesel.

Really disappointed as the image of the brand has been tarnished across anyone who pays attention to the news, which devalues our cars heavily. I don't want to return my car, but VW seems seriously scumbaggy and i'm pretty sure my next car is not going to be VW/Audi/Lambo lol

 

[danmeister]

I think they will have to retrofit the affected cars with urea injection systems (with free lifetime urea tank refills) which is all that's required to get NOx into compliance. Short term resale impacts likely will occur due to bad press if nothing else, but overall shouldn't be that big of a deal. Long term resale values should not be impacted, especially since you will now have emissions equipment and fluid services that you did not have to pay for. Maybe they would also throw in 10 or 20 shares of devalued VW stock as incentive to move on and leave them alone. But buying back cars is probably not going to happen, at least not on a product-wide basis, unless a class action suit ends up with that ruling.

 

[Ton]

I think they will have to retrofit the affected cars with urea injection systems (with free lifetime urea tank refills) which is all that's required to get NOx into compliance. Short term resale impacts likely will occur, but overall shouldn't be that big of a deal. Long term resale values should not be impacted especially since you will now have free emissions equipment and fluid services that you did not have before.

I read somewhere today that urea injection is about a 5000 cost to the manufacturer. I didn't think the engine even cost that much to the manufacturer?

 

[Ton]

At the very least they will lose some mpg/performance balance by needing to run richer and more egr.

Do I have that right?

 

[Avanti]

I was actually going to sell my TDI or trade it in before Xmas...I won't be able to give it away now! That's where VW have a problem potentially

I don't see why, I feel you and others are just over reacting perhaps ignorant or just looking to cash in (a bit like the PPI or compensation culture) .
It would be daft to think that VW are alone in doing so (3 litre derv anyone?) in fact it has now been reported that BMW, Renault and Volvo may have been up to similar (if you can't beat them join them) and then remember these companies do engines for other marques eg Nissan Juke is a renault power train.
If buyers are really concerned about emissions, then they wouldn't purchase a car full stop.

Do people really go and spend £20k just to save £110 year on VED? Someone show me the logic in that.

 

[HXP]

Odd

I feel it is a bit odd to call concerned VW owners ignorant and some would have purchased a car based on emissions and certainly mpg all of which may be effected.

Cashing in ? again a difficult stance to justify - I am not cashing in
if anything cashing out on a devalued brand.

It is good to have a lot of perspectives but suggesting an opinion is fine - suggesting those who are concerned are somehow trying to cash in is a bit harsh, no one other than VW engineered this ( in all senses of the word).

We will see once the dust clears if VW do the right thing so it's customers are not disadvantaged.

On a lighter note does anyone know how to stop calls about PPI, accidents at work and now pension investments ? Waiting for my first vulture call which will add VW ownership to the cold calling list.

 

[Avanti]

I feel it is a bit odd to call concerned VW owners ignorant and some would have purchased a car based on emissions and certainly mpg all of which may be effected.

Cashing in ? again a difficult stance to justify - I am not cashing in
if anything cashing out on a devalued brand.

It is good to have a lot of perspectives but suggesting an opinion is fine - suggesting those who are concerned are somehow trying to cash in is a bit harsh, no one other than VW engineered this ( in all senses of the word).

We will see once the dust clears if VW do the right thing so it's customers are not disadvantaged.

On a lighter note does anyone know how to stop calls about PPI, accidents at work and now pension investments ? Waiting for my first vulture call which will add VW ownership to the cold calling list.

What are the concerns exactly? it is common knowledge that the MPG is lab based and should be no surprise that emissions are too.
Until the Goverment announce (which they won't) that the VED for certain vehicles are changing retrospectively then nothing from the consumer useage has changed .
I don't see how it has devalued a brand, those making a choice on a marque and with long waiting times I doubt purchase on a whim, again, was the emissions the deal breaker? As I don't see how that changes the daily driving of the car, for the user they are just numbers on a piece of paper. Follwing hysterical folks logic in that the customer maybe charged extra VED, does that mean the customer has to re-imburse TFL for the exempt congestion charges? (After all it works both ways).

 

[HXP]

Some good news ( maybe )

What are the concerns exactly? it is common knowledge that the MPG is lab based and should be no surprise that emissions are too.
Until the Goverment announce (which they won't) that the VED for certain vehicles are changing retrospectively then nothing from the consumer useage has changed .
I don't see how it has devalued a brand, those making a choice on a marque and with long waiting times I doubt purchase on a whim, again, was the emissions the deal breaker? As I don't see how that changes the daily driving of the car, for the user they are just numbers on a piece of paper. Follwing hysterical folks logic in that the customer maybe charged extra VED, does that mean the customer has to re-imburse TFL for the exempt congestion charges? (After all it works both ways).

You may be right Avanti - but note I have not claimed ( as you do ) that you are ignorant, hysterical or anything other than respected your views as you see them.

They are different views to other peoples and I do think some do buy based on emissions othewise why would hybrid and electric cars exist ?

But lets not argue, I just feel all opinions are valuable and should not be devalued by personal comments calling people ignorant or suggest ' cashing in' as if they are looking to make a fast buck ( you won't do that buying anew car unless it's a Lambo or funnily enough Land Rover defenders).

Here is some potential good news

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ble-impact-prices-used-Volkswagen-motors.html

However, one expert valuation firm – CAP Automotive – predicts the current problems faced by the Volkswagen Group will have 'no discernible impact' on used values.
Unsurprisingly, the firm has reported high volumes of enquiries from across the industry around potential consequences on used prices.

 

[Kjhcambs]

and possibly charging extra VED about sums up the governments real possible concern about the whole thing. Loss of tax revenue will be why they are indignant. As to having to defend the fact that your car is petrol not diesel, ridiculous. Petrol is so much more environmentally friendly ( Not). If anyone bought their car as an investment or because it's green, really needs to have a reality check. Just to get this clear cars are in general a complete waste of money and pollute the earth. However they are convenient, for quite a few a genuine interest. This will blow over and another scandal will take its place about which the multitudes will be equally indignant.

 

[ColinStone]

The only Mk7 Golf diesel not affected is the GTD with the 184PS Euro 6 engine. All other 1.6 and 2.0 diesels were only Euro 6 from MY 2016 in May 2015 and most likely to be the EA189 engine.
Petrols were similar with higher power engine Euro 6 earlier than the lower power ones.

When I was looking at a new Golf diesel 2+ years ago, the sales person didn't even know about the difference/significance of Euro 5 and 6. I decided I would not buy a Euro 5 diesel car and posted to that affect on the forum.

Retrofit of urea injection system should be very possible - the cars were designed to have one and the are pics around of an Adblue filler next to the fuel filler. Possibly not as expensive as feared - tank, piping, injector, exhaust section, and software.

Alternatively, and hopefully not a chance of it happening, if just a software fix, then perhaps performance will tend to the emission testing cycle performance - 0 - 30mph in 20+ seconds in the EU, not sure what the USA cycle acceleration is, when the emission levels will be achieved!

What a mess - and I have a MkIV GT TDI 2000X for sale in the next few weeks. Great car and pre emissions testing regime!

 

[mrsparks]

euro 6 compliant

i have a golf mk7 2 litre 150 diesel registered sept 2014.Vw tell me its euro 6 compliant.This seems to be wrong compared to what iam reading,any info please.

 

[Avanti]

You may be right Avanti - but note I have not claimed ( as you do ) that you are ignorant, hysterical or anything other than respected your views as you see them.

They are different views to other peoples and I do think some do buy based on emissions othewise why would hybrid and electric cars exist ?

But lets not argue, I just feel all opinions are valuable and should not be devalued by personal comments calling people ignorant or suggest ' cashing in' as if they are looking to make a fast buck ( you won't do that buying anew car unless it's a Lambo or funnily enough Land Rover defenders).

Here is some potential good news

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ble-impact-prices-used-Volkswagen-motors.html

However, one expert valuation firm – CAP Automotive – predicts the current problems faced by the Volkswagen Group will have 'no discernible impact' on used values.
Unsurprisingly, the firm has reported high volumes of enquiries from across the industry around potential consequences on used prices.

No, wasn't looking for an argument etc, I was just seeking to learn more from the other stance as it were, as in some fear the negative will happen and so that must be the only way things can go.

I've just done a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket, it's times like then I could perhaps do with a leccy vehicle of sorts, my fuel guage was showing 22mpg for the little hop (but i know it will soon make up for it on a longer proper journey).

Back to the emissions though, let's say a vehicle fell in the <100g/km bracket hence exempt and this was purely to the device or software when ordinarily it would have been in say band D, then I suspect the MFR would compensate the Gov D rate for say 20 years per vehicle, this would not affect the customer directly.
Indirectly cars may go up in price and hence the used car market too?
Many comlaints I see of cars are that they do not achieve the quoted MPG especially urban cycles and especially diesel owners